Cold hearted killer Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 (edited) I recently acquired a used Dillon 650 and am having issues with the brass feeding correctly into the sizing/decapping die. Approximately 1/3 of the 9mm brass going into the die (made by RCBS) hits the edge of the die and has to be manually guided into the die. The brass consistently cants slightly to the right at the top of the cartridge, although it appears as if the brass is firmly into the shellholder at the base. I noticed the same issue when I was running .223 cartridges through a Lee universal decapping die. The cant of the .223 cartridge was even more noticeable due to the extra length of the case. Although grinding the edge of the decapping pin down to more of a bevel shape certainly helped alleviate most of the feeding issues, I still feel as if the brass wasn't as perpendicular as it should/could have been. I haven't tried to setup a toolhead for actual reloading with my .223 dies (also made by RCBS) but I'm positive I'll run in to similar issues. It really slows production down and is very frustrating since I picked up the 650 to minimize the amount of time required to produce bulk plinking ammo. Is there an adjustment I'm missing? Is it possible something is worn out of tolerance? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Edited November 6, 2011 by Cold hearted killer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatepickles Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 When you setup the die, did you raise the shellplate with a piece of brass in station 1 before you tightened it down? That's my first thought. Is the shellplate center bolt overly loose? Also, the RCBS die isn't flared as much on the bottom of the die like a Dillon die would be. You're trying to hit a smaller target (the RCBS die) with the brass so it's going to have a few more issues that have to be tweaked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 When you setup the die, did you raise the shellplate with a piece of brass in station 1 before you tightened it down? That's my first thought. Probably on the right track here. I run an EGW undersized die and it will cause the same problem if I don't take the above action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold hearted killer Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 When you setup the die, did you raise the shellplate with a piece of brass in station 1 before you tightened it down? That's my first thought. The lockring to the die was tightened with a piece of brass inserted into the die. Is the shellplate center bolt overly loose? I don't think so. I tightened the shellplate bolt until it was tight, and then backed it off just enough until the shellplate indexed/rotated freely without drag. Also, the RCBS die isn't flared as much on the bottom of the die like a Dillon die would be. You're trying to hit a smaller target (the RCBS die) with the brass so it's going to have a few more issues that have to be tweaked. Thanks for the heads up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Running a case feeder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold hearted killer Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 Running a case feeder? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatepickles Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 The leaning brass has me puzzled. If the station 1 locator is pushing the brass all the way to the shellplate and the die has been setup the way you indicated, the only thing I can think is perhaps one of your shellplate locations has a burr or an obstruction that makes that particular spot tilt. I'd examine the shellplate looking for flaws at each location, since it's out of the machine anyway give it a good cleaning with a pick or pipe cleaner. When you put it back in, label each spot (a pencil mark or paster would be fine). Look for the pattern to repeat at one particular location (or two). Call Dillon soon too, the forums are great but Dillon is really the best resource for troubleshooting. Starting with a clean shellplate will save some time when you're talking to Dillon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Adamson Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 (edited) did you use the manual and adjust the ramp and rod to push the brass into the shell plate far enough? I've had that ramp slip once and it caused what you are talking about... it's far easier to just look at the manual than to try to explain it here.... and make sure it's set for pistol and not rifle on the ramp. Alan Edited November 6, 2011 by Alan Adamson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 I don't use a 650 nor do I use a case feeder. But I did stay in a Holiday Inn express once. I have also read these forums quite a bit and I believe there are extensive topics on the tilting rounds etc. I think it is all in the adjustments like Alan stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold hearted killer Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 did you use the manual and adjust the ramp and rod to push the brass into the shell plate far enough? I've had that ramp slip once and it caused what you are talking about... it's far easier to just look at the manual than to try to explain it here.... and make sure it's set for pistol and not rifle on the ramp. Alan Very helpful. My press didn't come with a manual, but after downloading a PDF and looking at page 37 that looks like a great starting place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Vigilante Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Is the Station 1 locater a #5? I've been using a .40 Station locator and have the same symptoms you are describing. Was in Phoenix over the weekend and stopped by Dillon and the lady gave me a 9mm Station 1 locator-free. I love Dillon!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold hearted killer Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 Is the Station 1 locater a #5? I've been using a .40 Station locator and have the same symptoms you are describing. Was in Phoenix over the weekend and stopped by Dillon and the lady gave me a 9mm Station 1 locator-free. I love Dillon!!! It is the correct 9mm shellplate (I purchased the 9mm caliber conversion direct from Dillon). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold hearted killer Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 did you use the manual and adjust the ramp and rod to push the brass into the shell plate far enough? .... and make sure it's set for pistol and not rifle on the ramp. Alan The ramp is appropriately adjusted (pistol side was set) and the base of the shell is firmly pushed into place on the shellholder plate. Still have the same issues though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dillon Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 To check for correct shellplate bolt tension, push down on the edge of the shellplate at station 4. If it feels springy, then the bolt should be a bit tighter. Make sure that the ejector wire is not underneath the head of the bolt, but around it. The RCBS die lacks any significant bevel to the mouth of the die. Dillon, Redding and Lee dies all have a wider opening to help guide the case into the size die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donbryant993 Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 I had this exact same problem with my 650 whilst loading .45 The feed ramp needing adjustment was the cause for my headaches. However, just going to throw this out there, is your turret/shellplate clean and free of stray powder? I did have a problem with shells not seating all the way into the lip of the shellplate due to powder being stuck in the grooves once as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griz Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 I occasionally have an issue with case lube building up on the case slider, making it sticky and pulling the brass back out of the shellplate a little. I have to wipe the slider off with alcohol to fix the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 I have had occasional issues on station 1 if the ejector wire starts to work its way up and starts to rub the case slide. Now I just double check that every coupe of hundred rounds, and no more problems! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 I have the same problem when loading 9 mm if powder gets under the shell plate. I keep a can of compressed air next to the loader and spray udner the shell plate about every 100 rounds. I am also running a Lee U die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 I had this issue with my 650 and Lee dies...until I went to an after-market tool-head, which seems to have eliminated the alignments issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatepickles Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Had issue at station 1 tonight. The 2 bolts under the shellplate had come loose and the platform on top of the ram was able to wobble and shift. I tightened up those 2 bolts and I'm good to go now. I've lost track of where the OP is on their issue, but add that to list of things to check on their press. Since I'm not sure how loose those bolts were when I setup my 9mm toolhead, I'm going to loosen all my lock rings and retighten them in this new alignment. I'll also add that my shellplate is indexing so smooth now it's really nice to spend an hour reloading. If you know me well, that's kind of amazing... reloading is usually just a chore for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold hearted killer Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 I ordered a Dillon 9mm sizer die (and a hard copy of the owners manual). No dice, the same issues as before. I called in and spoke with Tim at Dillon customer service who was gruff, unhelpful, and obviously did not want to take a phone call 5 minutes before closing. After I got off the phone with him I went through the manual and verified that all the adjustments dealing with case insertion were correctly set. The next day I spoke with Gary at customer service who felt that it might be excessive play in the shellplate due to the shellplate bolt not being tightened appropriately. I went back and checked and determined that the bolt was correctly tightened (carefully torqued down until the shellplate will not rotate and then backed off just enough until the shellplate will rotate if moved by hand). No dice, same issues as before. Since that didn't work I pulled out my factory alignment tool and attempted to align the platform. Since I had everything apart I thoroughly cleaned and then relubed. When that was done I spent quite awhile attempting to adjust the alignment and ended up getting very frustrated. I could get the platform to line up such that alignment tool wouldn't drag in the primer hole, but only if I was pushing/applying pressure on the platform towards the front of the press. As soon as I tightened the two screws and then released my pressure the platform would come back slightly and the alignment tool would no longer smoothly align with the primer hole in the platform. I finally noticed that if I removed the casefeed body assembly from the press the alignment tool would smoothly align with the platform. As soon as I introduced the casefeed assembly then I ran into alignment issues again. Even if I backed out the bolts on the casefeed body assembly and worked on platform alignment as soon as I went to tighten the casefeed body back up the platform wanted to hop out of alignment again. So, I called Mike (who was actually very helpful) at customer service who felt that the platform assembly may be excessively worn. My press is headed back to the factory for a refurb/overhaul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Vigilante Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 How old is your 650? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babaganoosh Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I'm not trying to be a dick but the way some people talk about dillon on here you would think that dillons never have a problem. So that isn't true I guess? Anyone care to shed some light here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold hearted killer Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 How old is your 650? I'd guess mid to late 90's vintage. I picked it up used though, so that's just a guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Vigilante Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 So it probably needs an overhaul based on that estimate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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