.40

[gp686]

Hi Everyone,

Great forum I have learned alot. I am new to reloading and I am about 3/4's of the way through my first and only bottle 1lb. bottle of W231. I have worked up a load that I like for IDPA, 180gr Bear Creek Molly Coated over 4.5gr of W231 1.125 OAL and for my 38spl load 158gr Berry's RN over 4.0gr of W231. I shoot both in IDPA.

While I like the loads above, I do not have any personal frame of reference to compare against when it comes to other powders. So I would like to get a different powder each time I purchase for a while that can be used for both 40 S&W and 38 Special to build up some personal experience and knowledge.

The question then is what should I try next? What advantages and disadvantages would the powder you suggest have over W231? Some of the things I am considering are felt recoil, cleanliness, case postion sensitivity, speed, pressure etc. I am reoading to help me shoot more for about the same or less spend per month as buying factory ammo, so purchasing multiple powders at one time is not really an option at this point.

Thanks everyone!

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Edited November 1, 2011 by gp686

[a.roberts]

Without a doubt, Hodgdon Clays.

Incredibly soft .40 minor loads, and there's data for .38 loads. (Don't have a .38 (yet) so I cant' comment on how they'd feel.)

At Area 4, I had an extreme spread of 6 fps. It's been pretty consistent for me.

[Poppa Bear]

I would look at the ones in Bold, but I would really recommend finding a powder you like and sticking to it. I do not know what system you are using to reload but most are very consistent once you get everything locked in. I usually drop 10 loads at the start of a session just to get the powder flowing through the measure and then start cranking out rounds. By the way I am using Clays for my .45 and .40 major loads. You have to be careful and knowledgeable about all the variables of reloading to even think about using some of these powders, like Clays, at major power factor because you are close to max pressure charges. So before you try a different powder make sure you research pressure levels vs. velocity vs. charge weight differential between min loads and MAX loads. Some give you a fairly large spread, some have little room for error.

16. Clays (Hodgdon)

17. N320 (Vihtavuori)

18. Competition (Ramshot)

19. Royal D (Scot)

20. WST (Winchester)

21. AP- 50N (ADI)

22. HP38 (Hodgdon)

23. AO (Vectan)

24. 452AA (Winchester)

25. 453 (Scot)

26. 231 (Winchester)

27. Zip (Ramshot)

28. 700X (IMR)

29. Green Dot (Alliant)

30. AS- 50N (ADI)

31. International Clays (Hodgdon)

32. 473AA (Winchester)

33. HS-5 (Hodgdon)

34. WSL (Winchester)

35. Unique (Alliant)

36. Universal Clays (Hodgdon)

[Col. Mortimer]

I plan on trying 231, Zip and Green Dot. I am buying a pound of each just to find one I like. I currently use WSF and N330. I will post my results once I get the powder and work up loads(carefully).

[LPatterson]

I would look at the ones in Bold, but I would really recommend finding a powder you like and sticking to it. I do not know what system you are using to reload but most are very consistent once you get everything locked in. I usually drop 10 loads at the start of a session just to get the powder flowing through the measure and then start cranking out rounds. By the way I am using Clays for my .45 and .40 major loads. You have to be careful and knowledgeable about all the variables of reloading to even think about using some of these powders, like Clays, at major power factor because you are close to max pressure charges. So before you try a different powder make sure you research pressure levels vs. velocity vs. charge weight differential between min loads and MAX loads. Some give you a fairly large spread, some have little room for error.

16. Clays (Hodgdon)

17. N320 (Vihtavuori)

18. Competition (Ramshot)

19. Royal D (Scot)

20. WST (Winchester)

21. AP- 50N (ADI)

22. HP38 (Hodgdon)

23. AO (Vectan)

24. 452AA (Winchester)

25. 453 (Scot)

26. 231 (Winchester)

27. Zip (Ramshot)

28. 700X (IMR)

29. Green Dot (Alliant)

30. AS- 50N (ADI)

31. International Clays (Hodgdon)

32. 473AA (Winchester)

33. HS-5 (Hodgdon)

34. WSL (Winchester)

35. Unique (Alliant)

36. Universal Clays (Hodgdon)

Knowing which powder company this chart comes from would help because I am having trouble matching it to the several I have. Burn rate is not the best way to find a powder to use. On the Hodgdon web site Clays is #7. First should be the weight of the bullet then the velocity (can it make PF). Accuracy also needs to be addressed as a 3" group at 15 yards may become an 8-10" group at 50 yards. Manufacturers velocity figures are usually from a test barrel rigged to include pressure and as usually listed after approval by the legal staff. Based on my 45ACP and a 230gr bullet I could not reach PF before their max pressures plus I did have it do a rapid mag unload once (never found the follower). Now I like to use powders which are bulky enough to prevent another OOPS. YMMV

[gp686]

Thanks everyone for the info so far Col. I am looking forward to your resutls. I do plan on settling into one or two powders to use regularly once I try multiple. Great comment on the power factor and pressure. The Collin County IDPA website has a great IDPA Power Factor Table that I have been using, the table is at http://www.ccidpa.org/idpa-power.html

My set up right now is a single-stage RCBS Partner press, RCBS Carbibe Die Set for 38/357 and the Lee 4 Die Set for 40 S&W, I do not have a powder despenser yet so I weigh each charge using my 5-0-5 scale right now. I am hoping this month or next to pickup an auto despenser. Will the Lee despensers that that work on the powder through dies work on my press ok?

I am looking at Unique next it is seems little slower but not so much slower that I will be using a lot more powder than I am now, my Lyman Reloading Book has lots of data for Unique and it looks like it might work well for 357 Magnum loads in addtion to 38 special and 40 S&W. Then by the time I use up that bottle I may be comfortable enought to move to a faster powder like Clay's. Any comments on this?

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Edited November 3, 2011 by gp686

[2MoreChains]

I'm using the same bullet, the 180 gr moly FP from Bear Creek. A couple of powders I really like for major PF are WST or N320. There is a little bit of smoke with WST and the moly bullet, but it is only noticeable when shooting into direct sunlight. N320 by contrast is much cleaner, meters extremely well, but costs almost twice as much and right now is difficult to find.

I use Clays with the same bullet, but only for minor PF loads.

[Col. Mortimer]

Finally got a chance to test Green Dot. Here are the results with 180g MG CMJ, 1.135" OAL. 0.421 crimp from a Glock 24 with a 6" KKM barrel.

4.9g, 10 shots, low-930, high-984, avg-958, ES-54, SD-14. 60 degrees and cloudy, recoil felt more like a firm push and not snappy. Not smokey and the pistol seemed clean. No soot around the muzzle.

5.0g, 7 shots, low-929, high-953, avg-945, ES-24, SD-9. I am not sure why the 5.0g was slower. This is a bulky powder and a double charge overflows the case. It might start compressing the powder but this is a total guess. It may be the smaller sample size. Pistol still looks clean. The primers had a slight rectangular shape around the firing pin strike. I don't think I have a press sign but I would not go above 5.0g. Since I am comfortably making Major power factor, not reason anyway.

Conclusions: I may try 4.8g since 4.9g made an average PF of 172.4. Overall, I really like this powder. It felt really nice and I was surprised I made PF with such a mild recoil. I think 231 is more snappy. I did not test for accuracy but did shoot at a piece of a broken clay pigeon on the berm at about 50 feet and the rounds seemed to hit POA.

I tried Zip but could not make PF. I am currently using 231 with good results.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Col. Mortimer

[Blazer-6]

VV N320 is the holy grail

[EEH]

VV N320 is the holy grail

and the most expensive--

[Col. Mortimer]

VV N320 is the holy grail

and the most expensive--

He has a point:

8 lbs. Green Dot $103.90

4 lbs. N320 = $96.70

Important for the budget minded shooter.

[Croomrider]

VV N320 is the holy grail

and the most expensive--

He has a point:

8 lbs. Green Dot $103.90

4 lbs. N320 = $96.70

Important for the budget minded shooter.

Powder is the cheapest component. The difference is about 8/10 of a cent per shot. If you shoot 12,000 rounds per year that is an additional $96. That doesn't seem like a very high cost to use the "Holy Grail".

Mike