LGator Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Hello. After reading posts on numerous shooting sites I've gotten the impression that most IDPA clubs do not require shooters to use a cover garment. There are lots of pictures in the tac journal showing stages being shot without covers being worn. I remember reading someplace that the classifer does not require a cover garment to be worn, but many clubs insist that shooters wear one. I can see this resulting in skewed classifier scores. I've always shot the classifer from concealment but know I could do it faster without. What is the norm at the clubs you shoot at? Just wondered. -Luther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 No club can require concealed on the classifier. As far as normal stages go, it's stage designers or match director's discretion. It' s worth noting that the Winter Nats at S&W usually have a mix of stages, some requiring concealment, some not. Perhaps other large matches are the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gun Geek Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 The 2 clubs I shoot with (I'm El Prez of one, and a regular shooter at the other) require 60 to 75% of the stages to be shot with cover. Typically ony a standard drill (bill drill like, part of the classifier, tactical sequence, etc) are shot w/o cover. Any stage that involves a scenario requires cover - unless it doesn't make sense - you jump up out of the bed to confront a bad guy. Usually, if in doubt, cover is required. The classifer is not shot with cover. Geek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Perez Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 The 2 clubs I shoot with (I'm El Prez of one, and a regular shooter at the other) require 60 to 75% of the stages to be shot with cover. Typically ony a standard drill (bill drill like, part of the classifier, tactical sequence, etc) are shot w/o cover. Any stage that involves a scenario requires cover - unless it doesn't make sense - you jump up out of the bed to confront a bad guy. Usually, if in doubt, cover is required. The classifer is not shot with cover. Geek Not neccesarily - as has been stated before concealment could be required by the stage description or abandoned for an open start. We tend to waive concealment in the summer season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 The two clubs where I shoot in Indiana require a cover garment on all stages unless 1) it's the classifier, 2) it's a "standard" exercise, or 3) you start with the gun outside of the holster (like on a table). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdmoore Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Ditto what Rhino said but add one more. It's hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Only time we shot w/o concealment is when the temperature got to be waaaay up there...or it was the classifer or other mandated start . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayonaise Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Because of the heat we have here in the south some clubs waive concealment requirements during the summer. Otherwise it's usually manditory on vickers stages depending on the scenario. Clubs that don't normally enforce concealment actually do a diservice to shooters looking to shoot sanctioned matches elsewhere or the nationals IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGator Posted May 25, 2004 Author Share Posted May 25, 2004 No club can require concealed on the classifier. I know I read that somewhere, but I can't find it in the LGB. Where is this stated? Thanks. -Luther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Forsyth Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 I can't find it either, but I know of no club that has asked anyone to shoot the classifier from concealment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillD Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 When you think of the lightweight vests or just shirts to use as cover ane the very minimal time during a match that you actually have it on, I think the heat shouldn't enter into it. It's not like you have to wear a coat or even a jacket. A lightweight shirt will work. And you will only have it on for about ten minutes total all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 10 Minutes in Houston in August feels like ALL DAY... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Perez Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Hello. After reading posts on numerous shooting sites I've gotten the impression that most IDPA clubs do not require shooters to use a cover garment. There are lots of pictures in the tac journal showing stages being shot without covers being worn. I remember reading someplace that the classifer does not require a cover garment to be worn, but many clubs insist that shooters wear one. I can see this resulting in skewed classifier scores. I've always shot the classifer from concealment but know I could do it faster without. What is the norm at the clubs you shoot at? Just wondered. -Luther Classifications: In order for all shooters to be able to compete with their peers, Defensive Pistol competitors will be divided into four classifications within each division based upon their skill level. Classifications will be as follows: Master 85 - 100%, Expert 70 - 84.9%, Sharpshooter 55 - 69.9%, Marksman 40 - 54.9%, Novice - under 40 percent. Defensive Pistol has a very quick and easy method of classifying shooters. Simply take your classification card to any affiliated club and shoot our 90 round classifier match. The match organizer or club president will then be able to assign you a classification on the spot. You must, however, shoot a separate classification match for each division you wish to compete in. You will receive a copy of the "Classifier Match" when you join the International Defensive Pistol Association. Official IDPA targets must be used for all classifier matches. Contact your local club for information on shooting the classifier match. …. Specific points to keep in mind when shooting the classifier match: 1. The classifier is designed to be shot as a continuous 90 round match. While it is permissible to allow re-shoots due to gun problems and/or mental shooter errors for the purpose of accurate classification. No re-shoots are to be permitted of individual strings of fire. If the classifier is part of a scored match or the shooter is trying to attain a 4 gun award, no re-shoots are permitted and it must be shot as one continuous 90 round course of fire. 2. All shots fired from the barricade and barrel on stage 3 must be fired from cover. Your feet must stay within the outer borders of the barricade and 50% of your torso must be behind both the barricade and barrel while firing. These are the instructions regarding the classifier. IMO , I think if they wanted you to wear concealment , that would have been specifically included in the details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Most clubs here require concealment on a stage by stage basis. and in the summer concealment is waived because of heat stroke, sweat, discomfort etc. As to requiring it but not wearing it.. isn't that just goofy? i mean really we look dumb enough in our gamer vests any way much less carrying them :-) IDPA being a "real ccw sport" is more like a fantasy. i am the only person i know that carries a full size beretta.. or any handgun for that purpose that isn't a cop or security guard. yet there are soooo many 1911 45's and glock 34's go figure. and i like my next heavy vest and don't want a see through one. dependant on teh club CCW is usually stage by stage never on classifier, and not generally on standards unless somone mean like me makes it up. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGator Posted May 27, 2004 Author Share Posted May 27, 2004 Mark Perez, I've been reading and re-reading those passages from the LGB. I agree that it doesn't say anything about wearing a cover. Then again it doesn't say anything about not wearing a cover and the interpertation is where I see a discrepency between clubs. smoney, Nearly all the guys at my club(s) carry either midsize Glocks or cut down 1911's and none of them are police or security. Maybe that is a Pennsylvania thing since we have easy CCW laws. Ok, so if this is all just a game why wear covers at all? If there is any shred of realism in IDPA (which I think there is) shouldn't we be wearing covers during standards and the classifier as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Perez Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 LGator , My point was/is , the classifier has very specific instructions on each string in the CoF. If the BoD wanted a concealment garment worn in the classifier , I'm sure they would have said something. Best way to settle this is to call IDPA Shooting the classifier with a concealment garment is a pretty good idea , it gives the shooter a reference vs. shooting without. Ok, so if this is all just a game why wear covers at all? If there is any shred of realism in IDPA (which I think there is) shouldn't we be wearing covers during standards and the classifier as well? Some clubs do go to that extreme , but there isn't any rule preventing someone to don cover when it isn't required. until that day, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 IDPA being a "real ccw sport" is more like a fantasy. i am the only person i know that carries a full size beretta.. or any handgun for that purpose that isn't a cop or security guard. It's definitely a shooter-by-shooter thing, but there are plenty of people out there carrying full-size 1911s concealed on a daily basis. Myself, for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 It's definitely a shooter-by-shooter thing, but there are plenty of people out there carrying full-size 1911s concealed on a daily basis. Myself, for one. Or more than one! After all, who carries just one gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillD Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 10 Minutes in Houston in August feels like ALL DAY... Well there is always golf as an alternative sport if 10 minutes in a lightweight vest is too much for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGator Posted May 27, 2004 Author Share Posted May 27, 2004 LGator , My point was/is , the classifier has very specific instructions on each string in the CoF. If the BoD wanted a concealment garment worn in the classifier , I'm sure they would have said something. Best way to settle this is to call IDPA Shooting the classifier with a concealment garment is a pretty good idea , it gives the shooter a reference vs. shooting without. Some clubs do go to that extreme , but there isn't any rule preventing someone to don cover when it isn't required. until that day, Mark The consensus seems to be that covers aren't needed for the classifier and most standards stages. As long as everyone seems to be doing the same thing I don't see a problem. I had the impression that half the clubs were requiring covers and half weren't. That doesn't seem to be the case. Next time I classify I think I'll do it without a cover. Mark, I agree with you that it should be up to the shooter as to wether or not they want to wear a cover. In some ways I think IDPA should mandate use of covers, but I'd rather not have any new rules added either. Thanks to everyone for their input. Cheers -Luther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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