Eye Focus Just Before Start Beep?

[TriggerT]

OK, this might sound a little weird, but here goes. The last few weeks I have been messing around with "Pulling" my eye focus just before the start beep. Here is what I mean.

At the "Load and make ready" my focus is on the gun, and then ends on whichever target I am going to engage first. But then as the RO calls "Stand By" I pull my focus back to about where the sights on the gun are going to be after I draw and bring the gun up. The target gets a little fuzzy, as it noramlly is when I am shooting. I have always been able to shift the focus of my eyes in and out, and can usually get them close to a point in space where I know an object will end up being. I find that I am able to line up the sights faster, since my focus has already shifted to where they end up.

Has anyone else ever done this? Am I a freek of nature? Is this just a stupid and dumb idea that I shouldn't even be messing with? I would like to hear some of your thoughts.

[Guest Larry Cazes]

How do you focus on a point in EMPTY space? On second thought, how do you really know your eyes are focused there before the sights reach that point? I'm getting dizzy just thinking about it!

[ErikW]

Larry, those are exactly the thoughts I had when I first took a class from Mike Voigt and he explained target focus, front sight focus, and focusing somewhere in between them. Utter nonsense, a phsyical impossibility. A year or two later I realized what he meant and soon had an M card from USPSA.

TriggerT, it's good than you can do that. I can't do it until after the gun is up. I think that's what slows down my draw.

[Steve Anderson]

Trigger T,

I think you'd be a lot better off staring a hole in the a zone of the first target.

Then bring the gun up and see what you need to see.

Dry fire draws, without pulling the trigger, to a hard target will help the focus issues immensely.

SA

[EricW]

Another good trick I learned from Mike Brown (who shoots with the Lewiston/Pullman boys) is to focus on the ground between you and the target. It's a crutch to be sure, but does help you transition your focus better. Combined with Steve's drills, it's helping me pick up my sight faster. Eventually, I think you won't need to resort to it, but it won't hurt to give it a whirl.

[benos]

TriggerT,

I've done exactly that for many years. I feel a scientific justification, for or against, is irrelevant, because what matters is that you can obtain a sight focus quicker if your focus is moving in that direction as the gun is coming onto the target, as opposed to if you consciously maintained a target focus until your gun reached your index. It can happen so quickly I'd bet many don't notice they are unconsciously doing it. But it can be improved with practice.

It might help to "think it true" by comparing it to visualization. When you visualize anything, what are you actually seeing? But I don't think many who have participated in this sport for long would deny the creative power of visualization.

You're already looking at the target, so why not guide your vision to where you know so well it needs to be, while the gun is on it's way there?

When done right, I can see razor sharp sight alignment immediately upon the sights arrival.

be

[short_round]

Is this just a stupid and dumb idea that I shouldn't even be messing with?

Sounds awesome to me. I'm going to try it. Let me guess, you could go into the shopping malls and stare at those posters that looked like a snap-shot of static and see the boat with the beach scene in it? I had a problem with this. They kept telling to me focus past it, but I could never get it. This might not be a good forcast of my ability to use this technique.

[benos]

No problemo Short Round - I don't think there's any relationship between the "soft" focus required to see those posters, and the quick, conscious focus shift required to be focused on the sights as soon as they hit the target.

be

[DogmaDog]

Huh. I kinda do the opposite. After LAMR, I set myself up, look at the first target, and then just before "shooter ready", I'll look at nothing at all...or the ground in front of me, allowing my eyes to just sort of relax, so they aren't fixed on any particular thing.

Then at "standby", I'll return focus to the target, and bring focus back to the sights as I draw.

I think what I'm doing helps prevent me from becoming fixated on the target...or any other thing. When the buzzer goes I want my eyes to move rapidly and freely from sights to targets to the mag well, or wherever they need to go, so starting out intently focused on something doesn't put me in the right frame of mind, but focusing on something for just a second or so before the beep prevents me from being lethargic...maybe.

Maybe I should try leaving out that last step.

I also found it important in highpower rifle shooting to not look at the target between shots, and just allow the eyes to relax on the ground for the 20 or so seconds it took for the target to get marked. Then it was much easier to mount the gun, get the focus where it needed to be to make the shot, and stay there for a few seconds.

So, no, I don't think you're weird at all.

DogmaDog

[shred]

Is "looking at the ground" the same as "head pointed towards the ground?" I see that a lot when the start position doesn't let you see the first target. More than half the shooters start with head bowed down and looking at the ground by their feet. Seems like a waste of effort getting my head back into shooting position to me.

[TriggerT]

BE and Eric W.,

Can you guys do this on a stage such as the "El Prez?" I can only pull my focus when I start facing the targets, so I can index myself to them before I pull my focus.

DogmaDog,

I guess best way to descibe this is that I am focused on "nothing," but on where I know the sights will end up after I bring the gun up. Think of it as preemptive sight focus.

[EricW]

BE and Eric W.,

Can you guys do this on a stage such as the "El Prez?" I can only pull my focus when I start facing the targets, so I can index myself to them before I pull my focus.

I can't pull my focus yet, so you're a mile ahead of me. I just look down if I want to "pull" my focus back from the target.

Shred,

I don't think it really slows anything down for me....yet anyway. It's a crutch, I fully admit it. But it's helping for now.

[benos]

On the el pres example, and maybe always, think of the activity as a "process" verses "a thing you do." Maybe a different way of explaining it might help. You're under the count, looking at the target (not staring a hole in it but just looking at where you want to shoot), the buzzer goes off, as you initiate the draw your vision begins to "come back" toward where the sights will end up.

In the beginning it helped me to visualize a line or string, with one end stuck to the aiming point and the other end coming out of my eye, then when the buzzer goes off your focus slide back up the string toward where your sights will be on the string. (Courtesy of Chip McCormick, approx. 1981)

So back to the el pres, the buzzer goes off, your very first priority is to find the A box, then as your gun and body are coming into position, your focus is coming back to find the sights.

Maybe the confusion started from thinking you're "supposed to be" standing there, waiting for the buzzer, with your eyes focused in space.

When done right, it's a really cool feeling - very dynamic.... Waiting for the buzzer, looking at the target. On the buzzer your vision snaps back immediately to grab the sights, simultaneous with them hitting your index.

be

[short_round]

you initiate the draw your vision begins to "come back" toward where the sights will end up.

OMG! I was able to do this five or six different times today. I even had a three shot string that I was able to do it consecutively - see the target, pull back to the sights, let the shot go, see the sight lift, see the target, pull back to the sights as it was returning, let the shot go, see it lift ... during the lift I knew if I was grossly high or low too.

WOW! Thanks for starting this thread TriggerT and Brian you just rule!

It even helped on the draw. Once I saw where I wanted to hit target I could "cheat" and bring my focus back early. As long as I didn't move anything but my arms and gun (I couldn't bobble my head or body at all or it would not work) I was ready to shoot earlier than I expected. This only happened a few times, but it happened!

It was wierd, but it was so cool. Kind of like pop-rocks and coca-cola in your mouth at the same time.

[TriggerT]

Short_Round,

Glad to hear what I thought might be something "Weird" that I was doing has ended up helping someone else.

I worked on this for about 30 minutes last night, and where I used to "Pull" my focus, I am now starting to "Snap" my focus like Brian was talking about. Now if I can just make it work when it counts.

[benos]

That's good stuff SR. You're startin' to feel the power.

The more you train it the more it will work for you.

be

[TriggerT]

I noticed the other day that it is much easier for me to stay with the front sight, if I make the first target I am going to engage out of focus before the beep. I can still make my focus jump to the front sight, but if I don't clearly focus on the first thing I am going to shoot at it seems like I get on the front sight a little faster, AND I completely avoid the sometimes problem I have of leaving my focus on the target, instead of getting it on the front sight. It's not that my eyes are focused on something else before the beep, but that they are focused on nothing at all. Everything is fuzzy, and when then gun comes up it seems like my eyes have a much easier time, and faster time, focusing in on the front sight.?

[TDean]

What's all this stuff about focusing on the front sight?

How on earth can you aquire the next target, snappy-like, when your eyes are focused at the front of the gun?

Does your focus bounce back and forth between the front sight and the next target on a varying-distance 5-target array? (7yd, 15yd, 25yd, 15yd, 7yd)

I think I'm the freak....'cause I just look at the targets.

[benos]

That sounds fine to me, TriggerT.

TDean,

Maybe the best way to answer your question is not to answer it.

What you need to see to know you hit each target (as the shot is firing) changes continuously, and depends on target difficulty and the shooter's experience.

Trying to apply one solution to all problems can be dangerous. (Although not always.) Would you just focus on the targets to shoot a rack of Bianchi Plates at 25 yds? Imagine a stage, (which must be) shot left to right, started with a full IPSC target at 5 yds, then an 8" plate at 25 yds, then another full IPSC target at 15 yds, then an 8" plate at 25 yds, then a full IPSC target at 25 yds, then an 8" plate at 7 yds. With an iron-sighted pistol, would you use the same focus on every target?

The only thing you ever need to see is what you need to, to know (fairly precisely) where the bullet is going as it is leaving the barrel. Sometimes this can "felt" more than seen. Often just a peripheral blur of the top of the slide is all that's necessary (especially during today's USPSA courses - sorry, couldn't resist). Or now and then, it might actually be necessary to see a crisp sight alignment, stopped on the target. During a good stage, you might see a little of everything.

A good way to understand the importance of this is to practice the Steel Challenge's "Roundabout," with 8 or 10" plates (instead of 12" 'ers.) Even give yourself a little "room" - shoot it like the match, with one throw-out run. Shoot it all practice session; keep score - can you "get away with," time after time, seeing "the same thing" on the 15 yd targets as you do on the 7 yd targets? Can your practice partner?

When it gets tough there's no room for mistakes.

be

[TriggerT]

Thanks BE. I know what I need to see, I just need to stop wondering if it is the same thing some of the shooters who are better than me see. I assume that what I need to see will change and evolve as my skills hopefully improove. NOW, back to the dry firing.

[benos]

I assume that what I need to see will change and evolve as my skills hopefully improove. NOW, back to the dry firing.

If you think of "what you need to see" as constantly changing, not only moment to moment, but day to day and as the years go by, you'll avoid becoming trapped by a limited understanding. Using this approach puts the emphasis on knowing, as opposed to concluding.

Training, with a pistol, improves your bodies ability to "remember," in a way, or to know where the gun is pointed without relying on seeing the sights, either as a blur or in sharp focus. After some years it becomes uncanny how you can hit something just by looking at it.

In that lies one of the main reasons to keep up the dry firing (opposed to the popular notion of perfecting trigger control) - your body learns to remember what it feels like to point the gun where you are looking. You can never really perfect that ability, you can only continue improving it.

be