Grip Question

[FJR]

My grip question has to do with alignment of the pistol with your shooting arm/body. About 3-4 years ago I converted to MI technique and I have been having good results. I do have a question regarding the alignment of the bore with the forearm of your firing hand. I am a left handed shooter and I use a Glock 22C. Am I correct in thinking that the bore line of my pistol should be inside of my fore arm (of my left hand) and not straight in line with it? If I remember correctly in using the weaver position you are taught to align your bore with the top of your forearm of your firing hand. When I tried this with MI I did not have good results. I basically try to keep the pistol in line with the center of my body and have my hands come at it from the sides/rear. Kind of like the 7 o'clock and 5 o'clock positions. I have a pretty good grasp on how to lock my wrists and grip the pistol while trying to maintain good contact area with the thumb pad of my support hand.

Secondly, my thumbs point forward when I grip the pistol. My rear thumb rests against the slide, near the slide serrations and the thumb of my right hand rests along the frame covering the takedown lever of the Glock. I do not push against the slide/frame of the pistol with my thumbs but I almost try to lock them in a forward position against the hands rather than the gun, but they do rest against the pistol. Some times when shooting several hundred rounds I experience some slight abrasions on the left sides of my thumbs but I get good accuracy and recoil control. I sometimes shoot with gloves and this eliminates any abrasions. Does this sound like proper MI technique? Thanks in advance for any and all advice.

[bountyhunter]

Am I correct in thinking that the bore line of my pistol should be inside of my fore arm (of my left hand) and not straight in line with it?

You're correct if you shoot like I do (using two hands). The bore line (and sight line) must be to your eye (which is in your head) which will necessarily be in between the two arms used to hold the gun. The only way the bore can line up with the forearm is if you use a straight-arm one hand hold with the arm straight out from the body and your head rotated 90 degrees to the side.

[eric nielsen]

There are some really good pictures of this in Brian's book.

You might try setting your wrists down into a very strong position, with your thumbs in line with your forearms. The big knuckles of your fingers will be off to the side. This aids in pointing the bore of your gun out from your centerline.

[mas]

man, this thread is REALLY helpful.....I was struggling yesterday at the range because I was forcing the pistol to be "in line" with the long bone of my forearm (never felt like a pistol fit my hand well)...which resulted in very sore hands and difficulty with sight tracking. I got home, put the pistol in my hand where it felt comfortable without concern for where the muzzle was (which means that the muzzle looked as if it pointed at a bit of an angle), naturally put it out at extension with a two handed hold, and voila, NPA established....I read early on that you're "supposed" to align the muzzle with the forearm and maintained this notion for some time to the detriment of my shooting. Good to see others have been discussing this! I can't wait to get to the range to try this out.....what a concept: shoot with the gun *comfortably* in your hand and aligned *naturally* with your eye. Sounds so basic, yet I had never really checked my preconceptions.

[Steve Moneypenny]

the "align bore with arm" is not very easily done shooting an isoceles stance/position. shooting weaver is mainly where that came from and i believe chapman also. in Iso you have to turn your elbows WAY under to get anything near alighnment btu it still doesn't work right.

mas if you do an out of body experience and look down on yourself when your shooting you'll notice that it look slike /_\ with the gun making the tip...on second thought maybe just a tall guy and a video camera :-)

mas hit's the nail on the head when he said comfortabally you cannot shoot well when experiencing discomfort.

[Eye Cutter]

you'll notice that the pistol cannot be totally aligned with your forearm in the isosceles stance bec. the wrists are slightly cocked inwards but it lines up to your dominant eye

[mas]

I probably didn't say enough about this, but I'm finding that when I hold the pistol *comfortably*, the beavertail grip safety isn't pointing straight back, but is slightly angled....hard to explain. If it works at the range this week, I'll shoot some photos. All I know is that it feels better in a two hand hold and actually gives me more room for my support hand to get in there behind the grip panel (was struggling before to fit it in there).

[mas]

ah, ok, figured out how to explain it....does anybody hold their pistol such that the recoil goes a bit more toward the thumb rather than directly straight back? What happens when you do this? Seems to me that the only comfortable way to hold a pistol is such that the recoil would go a bit more toward the thumb of my strong hand. I've been training by holding the gun so that it would recoil straight back into the web, but it feels then like I've got too much of a gap between my palm and the grip and it's uncomfortable.

[diehli]

I'd venture to guess that that's exactly how most people on this board hold their pistols. Look at the photo of Brian at the top of this (and any other) forum... sure looks like recoil would be going more "toward the thumb."

[mas]

sooooo, I've been shooting incorrectly for two years (well, we'll see at the range, anyway). That figures....Good thing I figured this out before another two years of shooting goes by! Thanks for the input.

[diehli]

I was shooting that way for ~7 years (pseudo-Chapman)... my shoulder was always sore from the stress of holding the gun in that position after a couple hours on the range.

Once you figure out how to float the gun, it makes other things MUCH easier.

[rhino]

Is it possible to grip TOO high on the gun?

I've found my grip creeping higher and higher over the years, to the point where I am rubbing the heck out of my middle finger on the trigger guard, even though there are no rough spots there. Obviously I'm trying to minimize muzzle flip.

The problem is, it seems like the higher I grip the gun, the more prone I am to falling prey to my pinky and ring finger flexing after I break the trigger and sending the shot left, low, or both. When I purposely grip a little lower, it seems to help with that problem (and it's a lot easier on the middle finger).

Am I doing the right thing by lowering my hand on the grip just a little?

I've always had a problem with "regripping" and shifting my grip while I am shooting (I don't notice it until someone tells me I'm doing it again). I also seem less prone to that when I grip lower.

[Eye Cutter]

rhino: I also noticed that I've been trying to grip higher but a consequence is I sometimes unintentionally rub the slide with the support hand palm and strong hand thumb already. when this happens, i perceive a slowing of the slide action or a stove-pipe, causing me to re-grip. this will slow me down and get my mind out of the shooting! very bad!!!

do you have callouses forming around your middle finger joint that's rubbing on the trigger guard and near the web of your hand where the ambi safety rubs?

[shred]

Seen at the Steel Challenge, day 2: Todd Jarrett wrapping athletic tape around the index finger on his weak hand. I know he wasn't the only one.

[EricW]

Changing your grip as time goes on is pretty normal, I think. As long as what you're doing works, just shove the gun in front of you and pull the trigger. Pretty easy to overthink it and end up with nothing feeling "right".

[rhino]

do you have callouses forming around your middle finger joint that's rubbing on the trigger guard and near the web of your hand where the ambi safety rubs?

I've definitely got it on my middle finger, but I don't have ambis on my guns, so nothing on the web.

Changing your grip as time goes on is pretty normal, I think. As long as what you're doing works, just shove the gun in front of you and pull the trigger. Pretty easy to overthink it and end up with nothing feeling "right".

Another thing that is biting me is that habit I developed of pinning the trigger when I was shooting groups. That's okay as long as you don't continue to do with when you are shooting "for real" and you don't disturb the direction of the gun as the bullet is exiting.

Unfortunately, I know it is exacerbating my problem when I move the gun after the trigger press.

Must ... relearn ... to reset trigger ... immediately ...

You're on the money with overthinking. The more I think and analyze a given shot, the less likely I am to the hit my point of aim.