Col. Mortimer Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I see most of you are using VV N320 for .40S&W Major. Checking my reloading books, the only one book has a N320 load for 180g. and it has a max load of 5.2g with an OAL of 1.125". I know most N320 users have a longer OAL but then you are off the map when it comes to the reloading books. Plus, this data is from the Sierra book. It seems more aggressive then the other books so their max load is a max load with no fooling around. I currently use WSF but it leaves too much soot around the muzzle. Is there a powder that is closer to N320 without pushing the envelope and cleaner than WSF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Antichrome Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 If you're going to load long, it will reduce pressure. (assuming same powder charge) Most .40 N320 loads fall somewhere between 4.6gr and 5.2gr with various bullets. (my load with 180gr moly bullets is 4.9gr 1.180" =960fps) Find the length you want, work your powder charge up from a low level until you achieve the correct velocity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I'd hazard that that is one of the most popular loads in .40 if not THE most popular. I've personally shot nearing 75k rounds of it. I'd bet on this forum alone we could count for MILLIONS of safe 180gr MG/ N320 rounds. Work up to major and watch for pressure signs. What's the gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 This range of N320 loads for 180 gr .40 bullets has been around since they dropped the power factor from 175 to 165 more than 10 years ago. Load away. Standard cautions apply... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Mortimer Posted October 9, 2011 Author Share Posted October 9, 2011 If you're going to load long, it will reduce pressure. (assuming same powder charge) Most .40 N320 loads fall somewhere between 4.6gr and 5.2gr with various bullets. (my load with 180gr moly bullets is 4.9gr 1.180" =960fps) Find the length you want, work your powder charge up from a low level until you achieve the correct velocity. I agree and the data supports the assumption that longer OALs reduce pressure. However, no one has tested a 5.2g N320 load with a length of 1.180". Therefore, you are assuming your load is safe. One poster mentioned looking for pressure signs. However, most of what I have read would indicate that once you have pressure signs, you are past safe pressures. Aonther poster mentioned that N320 is the most popular powder for USPSA / IDPA / IPSC and he is probably right. But, I also read a post where the poster reported split cases, head separations and bits of brass in the breech area. My worry is the load is safe but we know there are variables such as bullet setback, tempature and variations throw weights that can make a load on the edge of safe become unsafe. As I said, I worry too much but I think when it comes to reloading, erring on the safe side is always the way to go. I may never become a GM but if I never have a KB, I will call that a personal win. PS: My pistol is a Glock 24 with a KKM barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Actually we have been testing it for years. Millions of rounds. Meanwhile.... Vit themselves shows more than one n320 load that makes major in .40 at a factory length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Mortimer Posted October 9, 2011 Author Share Posted October 9, 2011 Actually we have been testing it for years. Millions of rounds. Meanwhile.... Vit themselves shows more than one n320 load that makes major in .40 at a factory length. Yes and no. They show 165g FMJ and 180g LTC but not 180g FMJ. BTW, the max load for the LTC 180g. is 4.3g. So like I said, loading 180g. FMJ with N320, we are off the map. Being fairly new to reloading, I don't feel I have the knowledge and experience to push N320 to Major PF or at least, I am not comfortable with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullauto_Shooter Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 (edited) Actually we have been testing it for years. Millions of rounds. Meanwhile.... Vit themselves shows more than one n320 load that makes major in .40 at a factory length. Yes and no. They show 165g FMJ and 180g LTC but not 180g FMJ. BTW, the max load for the LTC 180g. is 4.3g. So like I said, loading 180g. FMJ with N320, we are off the map. Being fairly new to reloading, I don't feel I have the knowledge and experience to push N320 to Major PF or at least, I am not comfortable with it. Perhaps you should take a look at Production Division - everything's scored Minor and you can reload at a much lower pressure you'll be comfortable with. ETA: For what it's worth, I've personally loaded / shot over 50K rounds of MG 180grs FMJ/CMJs over 4.8 to 4.9 grs of N320 with no problems (OAL is 1.195). Edited October 9, 2011 by Fullauto_Shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't push a Glock mag out to 1.180 in the first place..... so that's a moot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Antichrome Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 If you're going to load long, it will reduce pressure. (assuming same powder charge) Most .40 N320 loads fall somewhere between 4.6gr and 5.2gr with various bullets. (my load with 180gr moly bullets is 4.9gr 1.180" =960fps) Find the length you want, work your powder charge up from a low level until you achieve the correct velocity. I agree and the data supports the assumption that longer OALs reduce pressure. However, no one has tested a 5.2g N320 load with a length of 1.180". Therefore, you are assuming your load is safe. One poster mentioned looking for pressure signs. However, most of what I have read would indicate that once you have pressure signs, you are past safe pressures. Aonther poster mentioned that N320 is the most popular powder for USPSA / IDPA / IPSC and he is probably right. But, I also read a post where the poster reported split cases, head separations and bits of brass in the breech area. My worry is the load is safe but we know there are variables such as bullet setback, tempature and variations throw weights that can make a load on the edge of safe become unsafe. As I said, I worry too much but I think when it comes to reloading, erring on the safe side is always the way to go. I may never become a GM but if I never have a KB, I will call that a personal win. PS: My pistol is a Glock 24 with a KKM barrel. I commend your focus on safety. Major power factor is only 165 (My load is 172) that is not a 'hot' load. The G24 6" barrel will give even a bit more velocity so you might shave a .1gr or .2 Vit N320 burns fast, but cool, and it's clean. The safe way to do this is find your optimum OAL. Then start low (4.5gr or so) and slowly work up to your desired velocity (should be 950-960fps). Watch for pressure signs. Like Seth said, you wont get 1.180 in the Glock. I would predict 1.135" w/ 4.8gr but thats just an educated guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Mortimer Posted October 9, 2011 Author Share Posted October 9, 2011 (edited) Perhaps you should take a look at Production Division - everything's scored Minor and you can reload at a much lower pressure you'll be comfortable with. The Glock 24 does not fit in The Box so Production Division is out. This is the reason for the Glock 35 and why the Glock 24 is not longer made. Edited October 9, 2011 by Col. Mortimer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Limited minor...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GForceLizard Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 If you don't want to go beyond factory tested loads you can't load N320 for Glock and make major. It should work with the long barrel on the G24. Load Titegroup for major PF with the Glock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noylj Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 OH My God. Soot around the muzzle? Have you complained to the powder manufacturer? That is just NOT acceptable. That will get in inside of your holster all dirty. Remember, loading manuals are nothing more that guidelines and show what their results were with their equipment and components. There are two pressure signs to track: Does the recoil with the same weight bullet have a more severe recoil than factory ammo and does the case, about 1/4" above the extractor groove bulge more than factory ammo. A clue to pressure is to keep your loads, using the same weight of bullet, to no more velocity than factory ammo. All are indications. Short of putting a transducer on the barrel, you won't ever know what pressure your loads are really generating. Reloaders have been working up loads for decades before the industry even began to publish manuals. You can always NOT use the powder-of-the-day and use published loads that give you the PF you want. As soon as you enter the realm of heavy bullets/fast powders, you are leaving the manuals behind any way. I compile all the data I can from various manuals, and all I have is one load: .40 S&W, 180gn FMJ, 3.6gn N320. When the powder manufacturer doesn't recommend it, maybe there is a reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow patrol Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I've been loading my first N320 loads using the Sierra data, so 4.5 grains with a 180 grain Berry's at 1.125 OAL. Very nice out of my M&P40L. No feeding issues at that OAL. Kicked it up very slightly to 4.7 grains to get the velocity I was looking for and I'm gonna stick with the 1.125 OAL for now. Very pleased with the VV powder (first time using the brand of powder). It burns clean and meters very consistenly through my measure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgrivois Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I compile all the data I can from various manuals, and all I have is one load: .40 S&W, 180gn FMJ, 3.6gn N320. When the powder manufacturer doesn't recommend it, maybe there is a reason? Care to share what gun, oal, and chrono numbers. I can not get that load to function reliably in my G35. Im up to 4.1gr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noylj Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Sorry, that's all the data I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braxton1 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 (edited) 40 S&W 4.7 VV N-320 G-35 KKM Barrel 1.135 OAL 180 Precision Delta FMJ 922 977 942 928 938 915 925 933 941 922 934.6 Average 168.2 Power Factor Edited October 17, 2011 by Braxton1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Mortimer Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 40 S&W 4.7 VV N-320 G-35 KKM Barrel 1.135 OAK 180 Precision Delta FMJ 922 977 942 928 938 915 925 933 941 922 934.6 Average 168.2 Power Factor I think I can live with N320. Your load is within the specs in the Sierra book so at least I am working within safe limits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Limited minor...... Great way to lose. (shooting limited minor) Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maksim Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Mike, I shoot 5.1 grains of n320 loaded to 1.145 out of my tanfoglio. Makes a consistent 168-172 pf, depending on chrono. for steel, i knocked it down to 4.1 grains, what a joy. This is all with 180 grain precision delta fmj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artsville Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 40 S&W 4.7 VV N-320 G-35 KKM Barrel 1.135 OAL 180 Precision Delta FMJ 922 977 942 928 938 915 925 933 941 922 934.6 Average 168.2 Power Factor WOW....my load exactly.....CZ and XD...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perrysho Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Check out this site, a lot of VV Powder Info. www.lapua.com Dig around, for data. Perry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Perhaps you should take a look at Production Division - everything's scored Minor and you can reload at a much lower pressure you'll be comfortable with. The Glock 24 does not fit in The Box so Production Division is out. This is the reason for the Glock 35 and why the Glock 24 is not longer made. They still make them...just not a lot per year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perrysho Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 (edited) COL MORTIMER, I have a G24 - 6" .40 S&W, tricked for limited, the pistol and the mags don't like loaded long ammo, chrono and be careful. Most Glocks don't like long AOL/COL. 1.180s will hang cross wise in the mags too. Per bullet shape. SV, STI, Para High Cap shooters can load long in most cases and/or pistols. Be SAFE, Perry Glock G-24 & G-17L are still in production, most are sold to Isreal and Europe. I own one of each. Used by SWATs and Special Forces. Edited December 18, 2011 by perrysho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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