EricW Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 This is from the Nationals thread. Bob Londrigan got me to thinking. What do shooters really appreciate at matches? I don't make guns, so it's not like I can pass out Glocks and 1911's like candy and be a viable business. What would you like a vendor to provide to a match that you would appreciate more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Thanks for starting this Eric! No surprise where my vote landed...creature comforts. Maybe I am a freak but if there is a big ice chest full of water and/or sports drink on a stage with a sign telling me that EricWesselman.com provided the water then I sure as heck am going to go find Eric's table to thank him for the fluid. And, while at his table I am likely to buy something (kid in candy store syndrome). I don't need any more jugs of powder I can't use without buying another gun (no wait...naw...the wife will never believe that one). I don't need more dodads for guns I don't own. I do appreciate product "samples" from the commercial sector...but how about giving them out as part of the shooter's packet at the start of the match? For instance: Eric's grips. I might just spend part of the evening before the match applying those to my blaster (if I didn't already have them). And after using them for awhile I might make my way over to Eric's table and buy a pile of them. Now...I get those same grips as part of my visit to the prize table at the end of the match. I just watched everyone else cart off the guns, frames, barrels, etc and so I end up with a packet of Eric's grips. They disappear into the range bag as I pack up and head home. They might or might not find their way on to my pistol before the next match...probably not. Will I buy more grips? Maybe...but probably not. See the difference? As I stated in the other thread: HazMat stuff (powder, primers) on the prize table is real tough on folks that fly. You win a big ole jug of powder that you maybe want to take home but you are flying. Now you have to go through the hassle of finding someone to send it to you and pay the hazmat fee. That 1lb jug of Titegroup that you can buy at WalMart for $12 just cost you $20 and a lot of hassle. A certificate from Hodgdon (for example) good for any 1lb jug of their powder is a LOT more shooter friendly. I get powder I can maybe use in a easy to fly with format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGYoung Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 By the time I make it to the prize table, there isn't much left so my vote isn't there. I've only been to a couple large matches and love the entrants pack. I actually pay more attention to that than what's on the prize table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORCA Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I've only been to a couple of big matches, but I'm for the creature comforts. If you want to get a product into the shooters hands the shooters pack appears the way to go. get your logo on some bottles of water or have it on a shade tent ( Orca like shade). I'll remember the thoughtful vendor who put some time and thought into giving me something that made the match more enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 OHMYGAWD Eric - just bring DECENT drinking water - you'll be the love of the shooters! The crap they keep in those jugs at the tables isn't drinkable! The RO's get handed nice bottles of water while the shooters look on drooling!!!!! Unfortunately, I don't think USPSA will consider this a contribution, but please try, pretty please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 And if you set up a shooter's refreshment tent at the hottest, farthest point from shooter's services --- think on top of the hill at Barry --- you'd be everyone's hero! Put your vendor table under the same tent --- and you might even be able to empty shooter's wallets.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted May 17, 2004 Author Share Posted May 17, 2004 OHMYGAWD Eric - just bring DECENT drinking water - you'll be the love of the shooters! The crap they keep in those jugs at the tables isn't drinkable! The RO's get handed nice bottles of water while the shooters look on drooling!!!!!Unfortunately, I don't think USPSA will consider this a contribution, but please try, pretty please I won't be in Barry, but I might head to Bend. I'm thinking that iced water bottles with the a logo on them will probably garner far more goodwill than giving out product samples that are probably incompatible with the needs/wants of most. What I might do is hand out all the free beef jerky people can eat, then CHARGE for the water. BUWAHAHAHAHA....!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I always like T shirts or hats from a major match. In the "evil" oilfield industry, crafty vendors give them away in order to trick unsuspecting yokels like me into doing a bit of free advertising. I'm probably gullible enough to fall for a free T-shirt at a match. But, probably not gullible enough to pay someone $20 bucks for the priveledge of wearing their logo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 No prizes, no gimmicks, just lower fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipster Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I'm with tightloop on the lower match fees. Call me Cheep but I live in Oregon and the idea of paying $200.00 to shoot a match is a big chunk of my shooting budget for match fees. So I'm choosing to shoot the larger area matches instead of a single $200.00 match. A lot of area people do the same. Is the Idea more participation or is the Idea $$$? 200 shooters at $200 is $40,000 and 400 shooters at $100 is still $40,000 so which is it???? The Shipster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 200 shooters at $200 is $40,000 and 400 shooters at $100 is still $40,000 so which is it???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasag93 Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 I just like the vendors being there. I get "hands on" and good prices minus shipping. I only shoot one large match a year(at the moment) and it is nice to see vendors. I was disappointed at Space City this year. Two vendors that I remember. Refreshments would be great I have to admit. I am gonna spend my money anyway. TXAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 I won't be in Barry, but I might head to Bend. I'm thinking that iced water bottles with the a logo on them will probably garner far more goodwill than giving out product samples that are probably incompatible with the needs/wants of most. Damn, damn, triple damn! I'll just have to convince someone else to do it, hell I may do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 No prizes, no gimmicks, just lower fees. I second (third?) that motion. Lower match fees makes everybody a winner. Of course creature comforts such as refreshments are also worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 I want to dull the pain of the financial injury incurred by the match. As a decent amount of cash is almost never an option, I want a valuable prize than I can sell to recoup a portion of my match expenses. You know what would be a cool prize? Round-trip airfare. Hotel accomodations. Rental car. Free entry to next year's match. That's four great prizes you could put on the table that virtually guaranteed four entries the following year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 Ok, so what we want from the sponsors is (and pay attention, Erik): - Show up early with free building supplies to construct the match. Lop $5 off everybody's entry fee - Provide free food and lodging for the RO's (may as well RO yourself) This will cut another $5-$10 off the match fee - Bring trophies and plaques. Save us another $5. Anything else? Oh yeah, prizes. Skip those and save us another $5. Whee! we now have enough cash to buy lunch at the range, every day Somebody piped up with the economics of a big match not long ago. As I remember, most (like all) of the match fee goes for targets, pasters, props, range and staff. What can we cut there? Seriously though, it can be very cool to get some small appreciation thing at the right time-- like free ice water in the middle of a hot the afternoon or coffee on a cold morning. Just make sure there's something with the URL that's easy to remove and take home.. I'm not sure I could spell Wesselman after a week on the range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 I am for comfort, or better stages, or more stages, or more staff, or paid staff. I have tons of stuff from countless prize tables and have even used some of it But it doesn't seem to be a fair trade for the possibility of more service to the shooter, or less cost to the shooter. Give me the cold drink and a chair in the shade and I will buy my bullets, brass, powder, etc. from you forever if they are good product. Having dispensed the cash at a couple of large matches, I will say that the match fees could always be lower if thats what the goal of the match administration team is. But many ends must be served and not all are in the interests of everyone. Hard decisions are made and it is also just as hard to second guess them from a viewers perspective. I am really liking this thread now. There are some great ideas here and the idea of a sponsor being the face you see when you grab for an ice cold beverage after you finish a blazing run in the blazing sun. That will make some friends for sure The idea of the sponsors helping defray some of the match costs and raise the level of competitor experience is great. It doesn't take a lot from each to do something. A little from a lot can be a whole lot if you are not careful I have always disdained the idea of prize tables even as I was doling out cash and making up match blurbs about 25 and 35 and even 40 thousand bucks worth of guns (and other prizes) on the table. The activity always required at least one dedicated individual, if not a team to accomplish and never seemed to do much in my mind but defocus spending from areas like paid RO's and more amenities, or less work in some areas for the unpaid staff. The mass of smaller product is very good stuff and when properly managed it can be a great boon to the provider and the shooter alike, but I am tired of getting my non-gun prize at the last hurrah as a little sendoff. If you are gonna give me something of medium to small value, let me pick it as a treat right up front as a door prize if you will, not as a goal to strive for. The handout bags we get at reg are a pain in that they only have literature (good stuff, but still literature). I say, stack the literature behind the matching samples of product and give the shooter a bag at the end of the registration table, tell him he gets one pass at the sponsor product layout and three picks and he's outa there. It will be self policing and will insure prompt and early signups. This would consist of everything not capable of being raffled effectively. Great thread. Good one Eric. -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 A prize what? Don't see those much in Area 8. Can't say I miss them either. Water & money into the props would be fine by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted May 19, 2004 Author Share Posted May 19, 2004 Just make sure there's something with the URL that's easy to remove and take home.. I'm not sure I could spell Wesselman after a week on the range. That's why I'm incorporating my company under the name: www.farvegnugendershicklgruber.com Just rolls off the tongue, don't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 (edited) Somebody piped up with the economics of a big match not long ago. As I remember, most (like all) of the match fee goes for targets, pasters, props, range and staff. What can we cut there? Not exactly true, especially not in all cases. Matches can and do make money. If they don't clear some profit, they need to re-examined on a cost effectiveness basis for the hosting facility/organization. The goal of any match is a good shooting contest. The goal of any match is also to promulgate itself. If it does nothing but consume resources and wear down the props without renewing those resources, then a match will soon wear out it's welcome. There is always something to be had from any large cash flow and like any large flow of anything, there are ways to divert and channel things. If the match staff wanted to as their singular goal, most any match could come down about $50 in entry fee cost and still run pretty much the same. You just have to plan for that. I would have to get the records, but I remember the expendables and hard range/prop/fee costs to be about 50% at the matches I was involved in. The rest was prizes, literature, t-shirts, mailing and the profit the host club made from the match (range fees to the host range & any profit left to the host IPSC club). The matches I worked took in $25-$30k and the IPSC club made a couple grand in profit plus the new range props and the host range made a couple grand in range fees. We even paid RO's cash for each shift one year ($50) and still made money. 90% plus to props and expendables is pretty steep compared to my hard experience with this. -- Regards, Edited May 20, 2004 by George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Van Etta Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 texasag93, The problem at the Space City Challenge with vendors is with the range owners, Pearland Shooting Club, or PSC. They require any vendor (during any match, whether IDPA, IPSC, PPC, or other) to carry PSC as "additional insured" on the vendors insurance. This is just ridiculous, we (IDPA or anyone else) can't get vendors to do this. What makes it even more ridiculous is even when a vendor is signed up as a participant, shooting with the SO's, and they have signed the shooter waiver form, they still have to carry PSC as "additional insured". I'm considering not supporting this facility any more in the future. It's run by a bunch of closed minded people who do not support the sport, except when it benefits them. Also understand, the range, PSC, is not run by any organization such as IPSC, IDPA, PPC or any other shooting disipline. Johnny Van Etta IDPA Area Coordinator Texas, Louisiana, New Mexico CL-124 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 "... not supporting this facility in the future." Exactly what does that mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Van Etta Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 Not participating / paying match fees to a range which does not support our sport. I think we all should support the ranges / facilities which support our shooting venues. If they do not, we should make a statement by our absense to get changes made. Just so you'll understand David, I'll probably choose to shoot somewhere else.... JVE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 It might be more useful to ask sponsors what they want from matches, since they're the ones who need to be covinced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmitz Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 Free entry to next year's match. As my company is a match-sponsor of the Dutch Bianchi-Cup this is a great idea. I'll think about this one&a prizetable as well. Tnx, Henny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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