Moving, swinging, turning, bobbing targets

[Steve Koski]

I need to get better at these types of targets (got my ass handed to me on bunch of stages yesterday), but our local club doesn't have many of them, so we don't have a lot in our matches.

Other than going to matches that have this type of stuff, how does one practice/improve? Are there any ways to drill for this type of stuff without having the real deal?

Swingers

Drop turners (multiple, very short engagement time periods)

Bobbing swingers

Zip line running targets.

Thanks,

Koski

[MrBorland]

Matt Burkett's site might be helpful:

http://www.predatortactical.com/cart.php?m=knowledgebase_detail&id=5

The speed on the swinger can be adjusted, as can the position of the barricade, so you can mimic some of the other types of active targets. I found incorporating it into a larger CoF, so I'd transition into any of the active targets, really helped, too.

Tom

[98006]

I saw they had a lot of them at Idaho. I can't think of any way to practice them other than to buy some. One way though is to watch the people before you that shoot it so you can judge how fast they move. I've shot few that when they do the walk through look really fast. after a few shooters, you realize there is plenty of time to shoot them.

Edited September 12, 2011 by 98006

[Graham Smith]

The big mistake is trying to follow the swinger. Get ahead of it and trap it.

One suggestion is to take the time to very carefully study these targets in action. The targets all follow a pattern of movement and several have a point where they have a perceptible pause in their arc. The "trick" is to aim at that point in space where the target pauses and shoot just as the target enters that zone.

[Duane Thomas]

The way you get good on swingers is to do everything you need to do to hit the swinger, before you have to hit the swinger, so that when the time comes to shoot, all you have to do it shoot.

On swingers, you'll notice there's a moment (admittedly only a moment) when it's immobile, and that's when it reaches the bottom of its arc, before it starts back up again. There is a definite hesitation point there where the target is easy to hit because it's not moving. When the SO demonstrates the swinger, or even when other people are shooting the stage, stand so you can see something that is right behind the -0 circle, from where you would be standing while shooting, when the target is at its downwardmost point. It might be a stick on the ground, a clod of dirt, it might just be a particular point in space.

Whatever it is, memorize it.

Then, the instant you hit the activating steel, transition over to that point, get the sights right there, have the trigger prepped...and just wait for the target to fall into the trap you have set for it. At that point, hitting the swinger becomes easy. Actually, by the time the target arrives at that point, you will have felt like you were waiting for it for a long time - though to other people it seems like you're transitioning and hitting it really fast.

[Duane Thomas]

It's the same thing for drop-turners. The instant you hit the activator, get the gun over to the target, which is still turned edge-on, put the sights right where the -0 circle will be - which you will know because you memorized it while watching the target during the demo - and wait for it to turn. You've already got the sights aligned and trigger prepped, you're just waiting for the target to turn.... It does, you shoot. Again, you get the things required to hit the target done before you actually have to hit the target. When you've already got the gun where it needs to be, sights aligned and trigger prepped, before the target turns, at that point hitting the drop-turner is easy.

[Steve Koski]

Thanks folks. I think I was freaked out by the short exposure times and just blasting away without getting any sort of a sight picture. Need to be prepared for the exposure, see sights, wait for the exposure, break trigger (calm down).

Koski

Edited September 12, 2011 by Steve Koski

[GmanCdp]

Thanks folks. I think I was freaked out by the short exposure times and just blasting away without getting any sort of a sight picture. Need to be prepared for the exposure, see sights, wait for the exposure, break trigger (calm down).

Koski

you got freaked????

it's real cheap[scrap meatal,used wheel and a garage door cable pulley] and ez to build a swinger..if not,make a Peacock tail feather[an arch] on 1 stick with 5 paper targets and just practice that way shooting each target in a very quick transitions,with all zeros down. Try that a couple 100 times and then do the same with the head..

[astephenson]

The way you get good on swingers is to do everything you need to do to hit the swinger, before you have to hit the swinger, so that when the time comes to shoot, all you have to do it shoot.

On swingers, you'll notice there's a moment (admittedly only a moment) when it's immobile, and that's when it reaches the bottom of its arc, before it starts back up again. There is a definite hesitation point there where the target is easy to hit because it's not moving. When the SO demonstrates the swinger, or even when other people are shooting the stage, stand so you can see something that is right behind the -0 circle, from where you would be standing while shooting, when the target is at its downwardmost point. It might be a stick on the ground, a clod of dirt, it might just be a particular point in space.

Whatever it is, memorize it.

Then, the instant you hit the activating steel, transition over to that point, get the sights right there, have the trigger prepped...and just wait for the target to fall into the trap you have set for it. At that point, hitting the swinger becomes easy. Actually, by the time the target arrives at that point, you will have felt like you were waiting for it for a long time - though to other people it seems like you're transitioning and hitting it really fast.

It's the same thing for drop-turners. The instant you hit the activator, get the gun over to the target, which is still turned edge-on, put the sights right where the -0 circle will be - which you will know because you memorized it while watching the target during the demo - and wait for it to turn. You've already got the sights aligned and trigger prepped, you're just waiting for the target to turn.... It does, you shoot. Again, you get the things required to hit the target done before you actually have to hit the target. When you've already got the gun where it needs to be, sights aligned and trigger prepped, before the target turns, at that point hitting the drop-turner is easy.

+1

At some point both of these types of movers stop, if only for a moment. A runner (a target that slides between two points, often not visible at either its starting or ending locations) is a little more difficult. It helps to have a reference point on the starting location to know the height of the zero so that you're not having to move your point of aim vertically when the target appears, just horizontally to track the target.

[Graham Smith]

It helps to have a reference point on the starting location to know the height of the zero so that you're not having to move your point of aim vertically when the target appears, just horizontally to track the target.

I find it very difficult to track a horizontal mover - it's a lot easier to trap it just like you trap a swinger. Get the sights out ahead of it and then freeze and let it move into your sight picture.

[freeidaho]

Just an observation. I have run many stages with a horizontal mover in state matches and in the Nats. The leading edge stick holding the target always gets 3x-5x the hits of the trailing edge stick. It needs to be replaced much more often than the trailing edge stick. Don't know if people are leading the target too much as they track it, or if they trap it but are early on the trigger. But it is definitely gonna happen on a horizontal mover.

kr

[kimberacp]

DThomas, is right! Follow exactly what he posted and you cant go wrong. When you exactly have to do this, just believe in what you read and do it. You need to see your sights not the moving target.

[Classic_jon]

With Movers of any kind, I think a good 50% or more in shooting them is mental. I always tell new shooters don't let yourself get psyched out just because it is a "mover" of some kind. To me, they are just another "target" to shoot with a slightly different method, no more, no less.

The one that I see more people get worked up about than any other is the drop turner because it disappears. The funny part about that is that most of the time, they are activated by shooting a popper or something else and you generally have more than enough time to shoot the popper and get over to where the drop turner is and then... wait for it to turn to face you.

[Pizzim]

Duane Hit it on the head .... but the only way i can think to practice it would be with a swinger or drop-turner. Most of the swingers at our club are homemade so i assume they are easy enough to make if you have access to a welder and metal

[jmorris]

How do you get to Carnegie hall...practice, practice, practice.

I simply built at least one of everything I had ever seen or thought of and shot at them, from near to far, fast and slow. This is a decent selection of them all hooked together (electric activation).

[Dwain C. Baer]

Very interesting...

[kevin c]

The really evil swingers are ones that are only visible swinging past a window or doorway. Those don't pause where you can shoot them. I've been told to set up on one spot and break the shot as the edge of the target gets there, one shot per pass back and forth; no time to get two shots off on one pass. The timing is something that requires practice (suprise).

I have trouble on horizontal targets. I tend to break the second shot on top of where the first went, as I would for a static target. 'Course, the target has moved on by then, and the evil stage designer will have a trailing nonthreat target there to catch the round...

One thing that can be done for swingers or any other target with a measureable time and duration of exposure and where you are not too constrained by tactical priority or sequence, is a timing drill. The top shooters know when the target will be exposed, and will engage other targets in a way that gives them the time to transition to where the target will be right when it gets there. With that in mind, you can set a timer to some par time, and practice shooting other targets after the start beep, continuing until the par time beep. At that second beep, you should have just transitioned onto the last target. You don't want to be too early, nor too late. Do this a few times with one par time, and then try others. If you know how long it takes an appearing target to show after it has been activated, and how long it takes for each pass, you can plan other shots around that and not waste time waiting on the appearing target.

This drill is perhaps a bit advanced, because it helps most when you have a good sense of how long your splits and transitions take, but it's worth considering, since you don't need an actual swinger to do it.

Edited September 14, 2011 by kevin c

[Loves2Shoot]

What a fun match!!! I wish every club had the props they do there and the evil minds to create fun stages. All moving targets are in a certain space at one time, so aim at the spot and wait, don't go chasing targets is my motto. When moving targets are on a counter weight, they tend to stall on the first exposure, so hitting it then is easiest. On that fast mover, you just had to draw and shoot real fast. I had 5 shots in it before the hostage, but it was full rock-n-roll, as some times you can not have much of a sight picture, but you still need some. Realizing everyone else will have the same challenge might help you relax, because if you are nervous before the buzzer, it will not get better after it goes off.