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Bianchi Cup results?


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TravisT & BE,

Let me see if I get this right:

All of the top shooters are squaded together at major matches.  And this squading is supposed to make it "even" so that all the big dogs shoot under the same conditions.

Well, what if someone not squaded with them wins? Do they not get the victory or does it go in the books with an * saying that this shooter did not shoot with the "supersquad"?

Is that the way people in our sport look at it? Do they really act like a bunch of crybabies complaining how the other guy competes instead of worrying about themself?  Sounds very odd to me.  

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I don't think there is really any issue if someone comes from nowhere to get the win..the issue is if you are scheduled to be there with the big dogs..because you are one..and change your shooting time to your advantage..and go shoot with the little dogs..

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eerw,

"I don't think there is really any issue if someone comes from nowhere to get the win..the issue is if you are scheduled to be there with the big dogs..because you are one..and change your shooting time to your advantage..and go shoot with the little dogs.."

Exactly the point.

be

warpspeed,

"Let me see if I get this right:

All of the top shooters are squaded together at major matches.  And this squading is supposed to make it "even" so that all the big dogs shoot under the same conditions."

Typically - but especially at the Cup, when lighting conditions can play a big factor in your shooting/scoring. (The 20 some year old outdated scoring rings of the targets they are still using light up like Christmas trees when the sun is shining on them, and you can't see didly if they are shaded.)

"Well, what if someone not squaded with them wins? Do they not get the victory or does it go in the books with an * saying that this shooter did not shoot with the "supersquad"?"

No, you get one "free one," so to speak. But rest assured you'll be in the heat next time around.

"Is that the way people in our sport look at it? Do they really act like a bunch of crybabies complaining how the other guy competes instead of worrying about themself?  Sounds very odd to me."

It's not a crybaby routine at all. You can be sure, when shooting, everyone is "worrying" about themselves. Especially at some of the Carnival Matches - it's a lot of heat when you're all shooting basically at the same time for the win. It's one of things where it's not possible to imagine what it's like if you haven't been there.

But, since you mentioned crybabies, that reminds me of a story... I was at a National level Sporting Clays tournament once, and saw some serious crybaby action. (They "run things" a bit differently in Sporting Clays...) Basically, most the top dogs try their absolute hardest to be squadded with their buddies, but not their top dog buddies, for three reasons. 1) When they miss a target, they can yell - "I gotta piece," and their budds can chime in an say - "Yea, I saw a chip," and the ref will give them the target. It's sad. 2) So their competition won't see or police their pathetic behavior. 3) So they can avoid the pressure of being watched by their immediate competitors when they step to the line.

It was the most unusual and foreign "competitive" attitude I'd ever witnessed. You'd think, as a competitor, they'd want to learn to thrive under the heat. When in fact it was just the opposite. I was shooting with Andy Duffy (National Champion level) at the time, and when we were done with our squad I said - "Let's go back to the line and watch these other hot dogs shoot." He quickly informed me that just wasn't cool at all, and in addition, would probably start some serious controversy. I can't remember the exact circumstances at the moment, but later, for one reason or another, we happened to be walking by a station where one of the top dogs was shooting. I paused to watch him shoot a few shots, and Andy stopped with me. It was nuts, after the match this guy came totally unglued. He was standing in the parking lot actually screaming and hollering at Andy - accusing him of trying to sabotage his score. It was truly pathetic. I couldn't deal with it (it musta really riled me up) and had to let him have a few words. I actually thought there was going to be a fight!

Anyway, sorry for the thread drift. So, I guess my point is that in our sport, there's a certain bonding/camaraderie experience that comes with being in the heat.

be

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BE,

As you can probably tell, I'm not one of the big dogs. I'm not even one of the little dogs. I'm like a flea :) The closest thing I've come to a supersquad was shooting in the same squad as Jerry & Kay Miculek and TJ in the rimfire match at the Steel Challenge. It was my first match of any kind with a pistol and I had no idea at all who they were.

I would hope that all the known top shooters would be squaded together, so they all do compete under the same conditions (light, wind, temp, etc.) so it is fair. And if it is true that a competitor is ducking the supersquad to avoid the "heat", then they sould be called out, but I think a DQ is a little harsh.

I too have seen the type of behavior you speak of in the clay shooting world. I have not seen it in IPSC or SC, at least not yet.  I compete (more like participate) as a diversion form my paying job. I have enough politics with the place I work and get all the drama I need M-F. I have heard that these big matches get pretty competitive and I guess if it was my livelyhood, I'd see it different.  But it's not, so I don't.

I hope that my posts did not come across as trying to say that TGO won the match unfairly or that Everett was unjustly punished. I was just expressing my opinion that I  found the whole situation strange in a sport where adults compete with firearms.

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Just to throw a rock in the pond... I was under the imprestion that there is a little bad blood between TGO and Everett?  I shoot in so cal and here rumers from time to time, and there was a line or two in the 2000 nationals artical in front sight that hinted at what may have been squad ribbing, or an outright dislike between the two.

anyone know anything firm?

I know it's gossipy, but I like it, no I need it;-)

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(thread drift)

super squad tends to make me think about something  next weekend i will be shooting the Commonwealth Cups the VA state match in IDPA... well, i was told it is open squadding and to feel free to shoot with some buddies ( ernest langton rob haught.... etc ) who will certainly be on teh super squad, i am an expert on the edge of master and have done very well lately... would it be good or bad to be on squadded with these guys? i think it would be wonderful to see ernest shoot as i have taken classes to him, but not seen him shoot a match. or will i screw it up totally?

just a quesiton for those wise ones.

thanks

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I would shoot with the best you can find. I find that I shoot better when I'm shooting with better shooters. I shot a match with a squad of new guys mostly unclassified and D shooters. I sucked the whole match. I seem to rise to the level of the competition, the reverse is true for some guys they choke or try to go faster than the last guy and screw up royally.

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I'll bet Mr. Leatham is fuming right now wondering why the hell were even talking about him.

....and of course he'll take his frustrations out on a Bianchi plate rack while we're BSing on the internet. :)

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davecutts,

I've never heard Robbie mention anything regarding Everet.

Nik,

Yea, Doug won the "sissy Gun Cup."

warp,

I understand what you're saying. Nevertheless, from having been there - I totally support the DQ. That's just the way it is at the Cup. Many years ago, Nick Pruit was DQ'd for showing up to shoot the Mover at 1:15, when he  was squadded to shoot at 11:15. (He said he read the time wrong.) The fact is that "the light" sucks at 11:15, and, it is sweet at 1:15. Did that influence his decision? Hard to say for sure. Knowing Nick, I doubt if he intentionally avoided his shoot time. (And, I personally liked him; so I hated to see the DQ.) But nevertheless, most felt like it had to be done at the time, considering the overwhelming circumstantial advantage (real or imagined) gained by changing your shoot time.

And the worse part is - for all these years all this crap could have been avoided by simply redesigning the target (to get rid of the indented scoring lines).

So, I guess my point of all that is, besides just getting out a little rant on the Cup, regardless of any bad blood between Robbie and Everet, it has nothing to do with what happened.

be

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

I just read a post dated june 1st regarding my comments made at the 2002 Bianchi Cup.

I'd like to make it perfectly clear that I did not blame my shooting on having someone shooting fast next to me.

I remember the statement that someone overheard then posted on this website.  After shooting an event, Doug and I often talk about what we feel or noticed while shooting.  This is how we learn from each other, whether it's good or bad, we talk about what went thru our heads while on the line.  I did make the comment that I noticed other shooters on the line that did shoot unusually fast.  He notice someone on his line having an AD into the dirt several yards down range.  I noticed a lot that day, the rain, the low-light cloud cover, the wet hands, etc.  I believe someone overhead my comments and took them as complaints.

For those of you that have never attended the cup, in the past, many of the top shooters have been squadded on the same line.  The match directors do this for a number of reasons.  Mostly, they are trying to keep the match conditions equal to eliminate, say the winner shooting in the sun while 2nd place gets rain.  Another reason is that some specators do what to come to the line and watch the top shooters battle it out, on the same line.  This year was different. Because the match was being filmed, they split the top shooters so the camera man could cover each shooter.  If all the top shooters are on the line at the same time, the camera crew can't cover them all.  

The Bianchi Cup is a great match, one that will help any shooter become a "better shooter".   Whatever your shooting sport of choice is, if you compete in NRA Action Pistol and your shooting will become better.  

I don't care how they squad us.  

Bruce Piatt

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NIK,

  In response to your earlier question of putting this to rest 'cause Doug won the Cup.....True!  In Open Class!  TGO won the Stock Class where Everett had him BEATEN until TGO complained about the shooting time that Everett had away from his scheduled time, and consequently Everett was DQ'd.  After TGO complained, not some RO "discovering" that the schedule had gotten thrown out for the RO's convenience,  did the DQ take place.  The whole mess lowered my respect for the people involved.  Granted, I only have Everett's version of the events, told to me on Fri. afternoon, but when I questioned some of the officials, no one said that version was not correct.  Guess there's whiners in all the shooting sports, huh?

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  • 2 months later...

I have first hand knowledge that what happened to Everett was unintentional on his part.   Everett had asked the Range Master for permission to shoot earlier because he always shoots a match as early as he can and goes home early if possible.  He was told to come back later for permission, but as the day progressed, he wound up walking by a stage that the RO's were standing waiting for people to shoot and they asked if Everett would like to shoot it, knowing Everett as taking advantage to shooting whenever he can, he stated he had asked but not given word yet, the RO said it was available and he could shoot if he wanted.........Everett went with the moment........he could get another shooting area out of the way when he could and he said OK............THERE WAS NO INTENTION BY EVERETT TO SHOOT TO BEAT THE SYSTEM, WEATHER, OR WHATEVER......... he grabbed the moment and shot, not knowing how crucial sticking to PRECISE rules was mandatory..........all his shooting life he had shot earlier to get the match over to go home and he kept on with his behavior not knowing the possible consequences........any RO telling you you can shoot if you want to is reason enough normally to shoot if you want to so he took it.............Everett is not afraid of his ability in a tense shooting situation or even worried what others think about his performance in a match.....he just want to shoot .......and shoot he did........I guarantee he will not break such rules again as it cost him the match in Stock class.......he had won the match no matter what Rob's or others scores were and wasn't concerned about anyones results but his own................Everett is a very respected person to those that truly know him, he may have his peculiarities, but I can attest to the fact he shoots a match as quickly as possible as I have travelled with him and know his psyche on "getting done and going home"  attitude.........in my mind, he deserved the win, but due to technicalities he was not fully aware of they took his accomplishment away from him.........all I can say is that it was not intentional but guaranteed he will not repeat the same mistake again and is capable of winning to prove it was not just a one time occurence...........he WILL WIN STOCK CLASS NEXT YEAR IN BIANCHIl.......he does deserve the respect due him

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