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Grip Safety

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Is it legal (USPSA Rules) and or safe to tape/pin a grip safety on a 2011? I sure this has been asked before but could not find a tread.

Thanks for any help.

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Is it legal (USPSA Rules) and or safe to tape/pin a grip safety on a 2011? I sure this has been asked before but could not find a tread.

Thanks for any help.

Yes it's legal to disable the grip safety. However, the thumb safety must remain functional.

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Is it legal (USPSA Rules) and or safe to tape/pin a grip safety on a 2011? I sure this has been asked before but could not find a tread.

Thanks for any help.

Yes it's legal to disable the grip safety. However, the thumb safety must remain functional.

Yes it's legal to disable the grip safety. However, the thumb primary safety must remain functional.

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Because the grip safety on a 1911 style pistol is a secondary safety. The thumb safety is the primary safety and must never be disabled.

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Ok. Let me get this straight. It's ok to disable a safety? Why on Earth would this be allowed? I know the Rules people have a reason but why would they allow such a practice.

Because grip safeties are "add-ons". Think about their function for a second - it only stops the trigger from being depressed if your hand is properly positioned in the rear of the grip.

As the primary safety is working on the 1911 - the thumb safety in this situation - everything is good. They function completely different.

ETA: This is NOT the case with production division. In production division - ALL factory safeties must remain functional.

BTW: Just so you know, being that you have indicated that you don't care what the rules say about this - perhaps your question is better suited in the 1911-style pistols section of the forum. They might be able to tell you more of a functional reason behind the disablement - and why the grip safety is more a pain than anything in the 1911 design.

Edited by aztecdriver

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Ok. Let me get this straight. It's ok to disable a safety? Why on Earth would this be allowed? I know the Rules people have a reason but why would they allow such a practice.

Because grip safeties are "add-ons". Think about their function for a second - it only stops the trigger from being depressed if your hand is properly positioned in the rear of the grip.

As the primary safety is working on the 1911 - the thumb safety in this situation - everything is good. They function completely different.

ETA: This is NOT the case with production division. In production division - ALL factory safeties must remain functional.

BTW: Just so you know, being that you have indicated that you don't care what the rules say about this - perhaps your question is better suited in the 1911-style pistols section of the forum. They might be able to tell you more of a functional reason behind the disablement - and why the grip safety is more a pain than anything in the 1911 design.

Funny.

At one match having showed up early to double check operation and do a little practice on another range I discovered my grip safety was not working. I switched to my backup gun for the match. While I can see your point the disabling of a safety on a firearm is a non starter in my book. Safety is paramount and disabling a safety under cuts safe operation of the firearm. Just my opinion.

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The tale I have heard is that JMB did not have a grip safety on his original prototype. It was the US Army Ordinance Corps that required this addition. JMB only grudgingly added it in order to secure the contract. Not sure if this is true, but why let facts stand in the way of a good story?

As said before, the grip safety only blocks the trigger from rearward travel. It would not keep the sear from moving in the case of worn parts and a dropped gun. Also, most trained pistol shooters use a high grip on the gun to mitigate muzzle rise. This high grip can make it difficult to keep pressure on the grip safety, leading to the possibility of not being able to fire the gun.

To my immediate knowledge, the only guns in modern production to have the grip safety are the 1911 and the Springfield XD. Not Glock, not the SW M&P, not CZ, not HK, etc. In fact, the current US Military sidearm (the M9) doesn't have one, so even the military has decided it wasn't important.

The primary mechanical safety on a 1911 is engaged/disengaged with the thumb. As with any other tool, the most important safety is located between the ears of the user. Keep your finger out of the trigger guard unless on target and ready to shoot.

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sfchorn is correct. the original prototype was the Browning designed Model 1905 .45 pistol, and it did not have a grip safety. Google 1905 .45 pistol and you can see pictures of the gun. I last shot one in 1972 at 29 Palms, CA.

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Ok. Let me get this straight. It's ok to disable a safety? Why on Earth would this be allowed? I know the Rules people have a reason but why would they allow such a practice.

Because grip safeties are "add-ons". Think about their function for a second - it only stops the trigger from being depressed if your hand is properly positioned in the rear of the grip.

As the primary safety is working on the 1911 - the thumb safety in this situation - everything is good. They function completely different.

ETA: This is NOT the case with production division. In production division - ALL factory safeties must remain functional.

BTW: Just so you know, being that you have indicated that you don't care what the rules say about this - perhaps your question is better suited in the 1911-style pistols section of the forum. They might be able to tell you more of a functional reason behind the disablement - and why the grip safety is more a pain than anything in the 1911 design.

Funny.

At one match having showed up early to double check operation and do a little practice on another range I discovered my grip safety was not working. I switched to my backup gun for the match. While I can see your point the disabling of a safety on a firearm is a non starter in my book. Safety is paramount and disabling a safety under cuts safe operation of the firearm. Just my opinion.

Sorry - really wasn't trying to be funny - just trying to refer you to the platform forum so they can explain the inner workings of the grip and primary safety, which is can be quite a bit different from platform to platform. Maybe you'd get an understanding of why disabling the grip safety in a 1911 is a desired thing? I would be willing to bet the majority of 2011 platforms you encounter at matches have their grip safety pinned (disabled).

Safety is paramount - second is a flawless functioning pistol. The biggest safety that we have is finger discipline and control of the primary safety of the weapon. There are some that would argue that the grip safety adds more malfunction (failure to go bang) than it does at stopping something untoward from happening with the primary safety off.

Oh - and +1 to what sfchorn posted. Almost rewrote a bunch - still did somewhat...

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Ok. Let me get this straight. It's ok to disable a safety? Why on Earth would this be allowed? I know the Rules people have a reason but why would they allow such a practice.

Because in USPSA we don't ride horses during matches, or allow the gun to dangle by a lanyard, so there really is no reason for a grip safety. You'll also find many guns that have the Series 80 Firing Pin block removed. Caspian makes a shim to replace the parts when you pull them out. Does your 1911 have the Series 80 parts, or cut? Do you feel any less safe than a shooter with a stock Series 80 Colt? The gun was designed over a hundred years ago. Not everything that was needed then is needed now.

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sfchorn is correct. the original prototype was the Browning designed Model 1905 .45 pistol, and it did not have a grip safety. Google 1905 .45 pistol and you can see pictures of the gun. I last shot one in 1972 at 29 Palms, CA.

Actually you're both wrong, the Colt Model 1910 (the forerunner of the 1911) had a grip safety but did NOT have a thumb safety! The Army wanted a thumb safety like what the Model 1905 had added to the Model 1910, hence the 1911! Here's a pic of the Model 1910;

http://www.ammoland.com/2009/10/30/colt-model-1910-pistol/

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so can you disable a grip safety with grip tape if you decide to put that on? Quote the USPSA rules please

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1 hour ago, Lancejr said:

so can you disable a grip safety with grip tape if you decide to put that on? Quote the USPSA rules please

 If the division you wish to shoot allows it, yes you can because grip safety’s are not primary safety   .  Look up the rule yourself. It’s easy to find         

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1 hour ago, Lancejr said:

so can you disable a grip safety with grip tape if you decide to put that on? Quote the USPSA rules please

8.1.2.6 When applicable, the grip safety may be disabled provided that the primary safety as described in 8.1.2.5 is operable. Production and Carry Optics division handguns are explicitly excluded from this rule (See Appendices D4 and D7, item 22.1).

In single stack, Limited, Limited 10, and Open you can, production, carry optics you can't.

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On 7/25/2011 at 9:33 AM, aztecdriver said:

Because grip safeties are "add-ons". Think about their function for a second - it only stops the trigger from being depressed if your hand is properly positioned in the rear of the grip.

As the primary safety is working on the 1911 - the thumb safety in this situation - everything is good. They function completely different.

ETA: This is NOT the case with production division. In production division - ALL factory safeties must remain functional.

BTW: Just so you know, being that you have indicated that you don't care what the rules say about this - perhaps your question is better suited in the 1911-style pistols section of the forum. They might be able to tell you more of a functional reason behind the disablement - and why the grip safety is more a pain than anything in the 1911 design.

 

It actually functions as a drop safety...it stops the trigger from inertia firing the gun if dropped on the butt.  Making sure you have the exact grip on the gun before it would fire was not its primary purpose.

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On 7/25/2011 at 4:26 PM, West Texas Granny said:

 the disabling of a safety on a firearm is a non starter in my book. Safety is paramount and disabling a safety under cuts safe operation of the firearm. Just my opinion.

 

Do you shoot USPSA matches?

 

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FWIW, JMB's 1911 patent shows the grip safety in the 1911 and only the grip safety-- https://patents.google.com/patent/US984519A/en

 

The thumb safety (called a "slide latch") can be seen in pencil sketchings on his personal copy of the patent in the lower right and the handwritten text says "added later at the request of the govt" -- https://images.mexicoarmado.com/images-articulos/coltpatent-mendivil.jpg

 

 

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On 3/8/2020 at 4:53 PM, shred said:

FWIW, JMB's 1911 patent shows the grip safety in the 1911 and only the grip safety-- https://patents.google.com/patent/US984519A/en

 

The thumb safety (called a "slide latch") can be seen in pencil sketchings on his personal copy of the patent in the lower right and the handwritten text says "added later at the request of the govt" -- https://images.mexicoarmado.com/images-articulos/coltpatent-mendivil.jpg

 

 

NIce research.

 

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