3-D 'CAD' Stage Design Software

[Graham Smith]

Here is a problem I still have not been able to fully resolve. Most of our pits have berms on three sides, which gives us a lot of flexibility. But each one is a different size, so laying out a stage means designing it with that pit specifically in mind.

The problem is that most of the design methods I've seen used do not work to scale. So, when you layout a design, it's hard to know if it will fit, if the angles will work, etc. As a result, something that looks good on paper may not workout that well or may take a lot of tweaking come setup time.

For now, I'm using PowerPoint and have created some little shapes that are to scale and represent an overhead view. I've also designed one template for each range that is to scale. The scale is 1" = 8' (the size of a wall section). These work OK but now I want to take the next step.

I'd like to find a simple, inexpensive 3-D software - something like a landscaping or house design program. I had one about 10 years ago when I was doing some remodeling and it worked pretty well; so, I'm quite sure that there is something available. The idea is to not only be able to look at things to scale from OH but to get a shooters eye view as well. I've looked at Google Sketch-Up that a lot of people are using, but it is only a sketch and not to any kind of scale.

If anyone has any experience with such a program, let me know.

[spanky]

When I did the stages for AL sectional and had to re-size some of them due to different sized bays, what I did was shrink my berm to the correct dimensions then lay out the targets/props.

ETA: This is Sketchup for what it's worth.

Edited July 14, 2011 by spanky

[Graham Smith]

When I did the stages for AL sectional and had to re-size some of them due to different sized bays, what I did was shrink my berm to the correct dimensions then lay out the targets/props.

I thought about that, but since nothing is to scale to start with, you are still just guessing aren't you?

[spanky]

When I did the stages for AL sectional and had to re-size some of them due to different sized bays, what I did was shrink my berm to the correct dimensions then lay out the targets/props.

I thought about that, but since nothing is to scale to start with, you are still just guessing aren't you?

Unless I'm missing something, all of my props are to scale. I didn't draw them but I have measured several and they come out correctly.

[Graham Smith]

Unless I'm missing something, all of my props are to scale. I didn't draw them but I have measured several and they come out correctly.

I guess I just haven't spent enough time with the software. I didn't think you could actually design to scale - I thought it was more of a 3-D paint program.

[spanky]

there is a tape measure tool built into the software. select point A and point B and it gives you the distance.

[Mark R]

Sketchup does and is drawn to scale.

Graham...you could take the basic shooting bay with targets template, modify the berm dimensions, and save-as another named file...call them bay1_template, bay2_template, etc. Or whatever you like for template names.

Then when you design stages for your individual bays, open one of the applicable bay templates, create a stage, and save-as the new stage name file. Just make sure you save-as the first time so you don't overwrite your bayX_template file.

[sperman]

I was never able to successfully modify the bay dimensions when I gave sketchup a try.

[spanky]

Unlock the berm then use the Push/Pull tool to move the walls in.

[gjeepguy]

Unlock the berm then use the Push/Pull tool to move the walls in.

sketchup is dimensionally correct and you have the flexibility to create the berms anyway you want. the easiest would be to make rectangles, however you can get pretty specific on the size and shape if you would like.

where do you shoot? if i can find it on google maps, i could layout a begining model for you with the berms.

FYI, i use sketchup at work on a daily basis to create architectural models, it is a pretty powerful program.

[gjeepguy]

Unlock the berm then use the Push/Pull tool to move the walls in.

sketchup is dimensionally correct and you have the flexibility to create the berms anyway you want. the easiest would be to make rectangles, however you can get pretty specific on the size and shape if you would like.

where do you shoot? if i can find it on google maps, i could layout a begining model for you with the berms.

FYI, i use sketchup at work on a daily basis to create architectural models, it is a pretty powerful program.

better yet send me your powerpoint sketches. i can convert them to sketchup.

[edwin garcia]

Used SketchUp for Tx Open 2011 last March.

Stage 7:

knowing the range and bays where you will set up helps.

Having enough experience designing and setting up stages really helps.

Edwin

[Graham Smith]

Graham...you could take the basic shooting bay with targets template, modify the berm dimensions, and save-as another named file...call them bay1_template, bay2_template, etc. Or whatever you like for template names.

So I gather. I'm going to have to revisit Sketchup. I just assumed that the props were drawn to approximations rather than to scale but I can see that's not the case.

I'm used to working with a layout grid where X" = Y' and everything is scaled to this. The Sketchup diagrams I've looked at do not seem to work this way but I'm guessing that it may be possible to do this, which will make learning easier because I'm used to working with things from a plan view (overhead). In any case, it looks like I'm going to be spending some time with the tutorials.

[gjeepguy]

Graham...you could take the basic shooting bay with targets template, modify the berm dimensions, and save-as another named file...call them bay1_template, bay2_template, etc. Or whatever you like for template names.

So I gather. I'm going to have to revisit Sketchup. I just assumed that the props were drawn to approximations rather than to scale but I can see that's not the case.

I'm used to working with a layout grid where X" = Y' and everything is scaled to this. The Sketchup diagrams I've looked at do not seem to work this way but I'm guessing that it may be possible to do this, which will make learning easier because I'm used to working with things from a plan view (overhead). In any case, it looks like I'm going to be spending some time with the tutorials.

sketchup is based in x, y and z. everything is full scale. you can work in plan view to generate the berm sizes. as you draw lines, look in the bottom right hand corner for the length. you can type them in before or after you click the mouse the second time.

after you have the plans, you can extrude the shapes using the push and pull command. these required complete shapes (retangles for example).

[Morphire]

I'm used to working with a layout grid where X" = Y' and everything is scaled to this. The Sketchup diagrams I've looked at do not seem to work this way but I'm guessing that it may be possible to do this, which will make learning easier because I'm used to working with things from a plan view (overhead). In any case, it looks like I'm going to be spending some time with the tutorials.

The trick it so change to Parallel Projection under the Camera menu and then click on the overhead button (looks like the overhead view of the roof of a house) in the toolbar to get the flattened overhead CAD view you're used to. I made a layer called "Grid" and drew a series of layout lines with 1' x 1' spacing so I could get a better handle on things. Select all the lines and lock them so you can't mess them up once you have them built. You can opt to show this layer when you need it and hide it when you need to do things like export a 2d model. It works really well. I don't even bother to make anything but a back wall for my "berms" and I design from the back of the berm in the middle. As long as you know the width of the berms you are eventually using then you just have to stick within those borders. You can always draw side walls for berms if you choose to. It's pretty simple with the rectangle and push/pull tools. Draw a rectangle on the ground and then pull it upwards to make the height of your berm. Hint* as you're pulling the rectangle upwards type 12' on your keyboard and the rectangle will snap to that exact height. Then select the top inner edge of the wall you just made and push/pull it towards the other top edge to angle back the sides of the berm. It's super simple once you see how to step through it.

Eventually you will want to kick out of Parallel Projection and back into Perspective camera mode so you can do virtual pans and check all your angles for shoot throughs and hidden targets. Reality is that you will not be able to super accurately match the drawing unless you want to lay out your real life stages with a tape measure and grid too, so try not to fret over the preciseness of the sketchup file as the actual setup will be close but not exactly to the diagram.

[LJE]

Here is a problem I still have not been able to fully resolve. Most of our pits have berms on three sides, which gives us a lot of flexibility. But each one is a different size, so laying out a stage means designing it with that pit specifically in mind.

The problem is that most of the design methods I've seen used do not work to scale. So, when you layout a design, it's hard to know if it will fit, if the angles will work, etc. As a result, something that looks good on paper may not workout that well or may take a lot of tweaking come setup time.

For now, I'm using PowerPoint and have created some little shapes that are to scale and represent an overhead view. I've also designed one template for each range that is to scale. The scale is 1" = 8' (the size of a wall section). These work OK but now I want to take the next step.

I'd like to find a simple, inexpensive 3-D software - something like a landscaping or house design program. I had one about 10 years ago when I was doing some remodeling and it worked pretty well; so, I'm quite sure that there is something available. The idea is to not only be able to look at things to scale from OH but to get a shooters eye view as well. I've looked at Google Sketch-Up that a lot of people are using, but it is only a sketch and not to any kind of scale.

If anyone has any experience with such a program, let me know.

You could also keep using PowerPoint and use my template. Preview the template here Preview

Look at slide numbers 7,8 & 9 showing the background grids (background grids are actually a background image and you must set powerpoint to print background images or it will not be visible on the printed page) and scaled targets & props as well as a ruler you can use to scale other objects. The template includes several different scale grids that will accommodate almost any range. Slide number 9 shows a sample stage with all the possible shots shown as red dotted lines. This allows you to proof the stage prior to going to the range. All grid lines represent 1 yard, making setup very easy. On setup day you can pace off the distance for rough layout and then do the final tweaking. I have used this template to design several Area 8 Championships, and the setup of the stages was accurate and consistent.

You can dowload the template here Topton Action Practical Shooters

Larry

Edited July 16, 2011 by LJE