1st match observations from a novice

[BigDave]

I shot my first IDPA match last night (first combat pistol match ever for that matter).  The senarios were good as far as IDPA goes (lots of shooting from cover, tactical sequence, tac reloads, etc).  I must say, I had a blast (pun intended)  Following are my recommendations to other novice's:

1) SLOW down, you will already be slower than 75% of the other shooters there.  The thing you really don't want is to rack up a ton of proceedural penalty's or get DQ'd for a brain-fart.

2) on tac reloads, slow waaaaay down.  I found quickly that when I rushed my reloads, it took me more time. In IDPA it is all time, not points.

3) don't be afraid to go to strong hand only on a freestyle stage when shooting around cover.  It is easier to keep your balance I found.  

4) have fun

Anyhow, I did not rack up a single proceedural penalty the entire match (5 stages, 40+ rounds), which was my goal.  I am elated about that.  I did not shoot very accurately though.  My first stage, 6 targets, Vickers count, I went 19 down (.5 sec ea.)  However, one thing that I did notice, MY SIGHT ALIGNMENT AND FOLLOWTHROUGH WAS PERFECT!!! It was as if my arm and wrists were hinged I didn' t really realize it till after the stages were done, it was very cool.  What was off was my alignment of the sights to the target.  Plus, I switched from 230gr. ball, to 200gr. TC. In doing so, I messed with my sights last week on a poorly light indoor range, I think I screwed up.  Plus, the powder was a bit different (WW 231 to HP 38, which the HP38 is abit of a flame thrower I noted)

Anyhow, my first experience was a good one.  The MD said I was safe (very important) and I moved well.  All I need now is more time, more experience.  

[Chuck D]

After shooting IPSC for 14 years my first IDPA match reminded me a great deal of what old IPSC matches used to be like. Engaging targets in order of threat, low light stages, emphasis on accuracy and the various choices in firearms were a welcome change from the hi capacity run-n-gun IPSC has become. I have no plans to abandon IPSC but honestly I can see myself shooting a great deal more IDPA in the future. Best of luck to you and remember whatever you do......HAVE FUN DOING IT !

[Duane Thomas]

"SLOW down, you will already be slower than 75% of the other shooters there.  The thing you really don't want is to rack up a ton of proceedural penalty's or get DQ'd for a brain-fart."

Pat Harrison recently made what I thought was a very insightful comment to me, "IDPA is the only shooting sport where how you shoot is more important than how well you shoot." As opposed to IPSC where it's just pure-ass speed and gun handling, in IDPA, yeah, it's a major good thing if you know what you're doing with a gun in your hand, but the real secret to success is to not rack up the procedural penalties. Use cover well, do your tactical reloads, put the required number of points on each target...and the faster you can do that, the better.

[Duane Thomas]

"2) on tac reloads, slow waaaaay down.  I found quickly that when I rushed my reloads, it took me more time. In IDPA it is all time, not points."

Interesting. Now that I think about it, I guess I've always looked at it the other way around, that IPDA is primarily about points. You want the best time possible, but it's the points on target - thus no procedural penalties for unneutralized targets - and avoiding other procedural penalties that really counts the most.

"3) don't be afraid to go to strong hand only on a freestyle stage when shooting around cover. It is easier to keep your balance I found."

Erg, I'm not that hot on that one. Sorry. You lose an immense amount of recoil control when you go to one hand. It's much harder to fire a handgun fast and accurately with only one hand on the gun because most of your recoil control - or recoil management if your prefer - comes from your support hand. With good technique you can still get around cover AND keep both hands on the gun. Simply flex at the knees and drop your butt toward the ground, it'll look kind of like a much less extreme example of the martial artist's horse stance. This will allow you to lean out much farther to the side with good balance AND you can still keep both hands on the gun for better shooting performance.

(Edited by Duane Thomas at 2:27 am on July 18, 2001)

[Chriss Grube]

A decent ipsc shooter will beat a great IDPA shooter every time IF the IPSC guy slows down enough to keep all the hits in the 5 zone. IDPA is accuracy based where IPSC is Speed. The rules are a little different but once you get used to the stupid reload style and don't forget to engage targets in Tactical order you set.

[Duane Thomas]

Yep, that's pretty much it.

[Nik Habicht]

Chriss and Duane,

A couple of months back I beat an IPSC Master in a local IDPA match.  He was competing with a Glock 19 (probably a significant change from his race gun) and I was shooting a Glock 34.  I don't know if he was having an off day or if it was the change in guns; I know for me it was one of those perfect runs ---- except that instead of it being one perfect run, I was smoking the whole match.  I'm still waiting for a repeat of that moment.......

However, now that I started shooting IPSC, this same guy smokes my sorry ass every match........so we're back to what Chriss was saying.

[Duane Thomas]

Nik,

Cool story!

[Chriss Grube]

Nik,

He was used to IPSC style speed. I'll bet time wise he crushed you but probably racked up a shitload of points down. That's why I took third at the DW at TDI instead of first. I racked up 25 seconds from points down. I missed first by < 3 seconds. If I would have slowd down I would have won the whole damn thing going away. Live and learn. Oh well the 3rd place prize gun is pretty sweet!

[Duane Thomas]

"The DW at TDI"?

[talon]

The phrase "stupid reload style" caught my attention. If I'm not mistaken IDPA has slide-lock reloads and tac-reloads and does not permit dropping loaded mags.  I'm curious as to which one you dislike ?  Or by stupid do you just mean different ?  From the reading I have done so far it would seem that alot of IDPA shooters dislike the whole tac-load concept.  I'm way too much of a newbie to have any opinions about these things so I welcome yours.

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Quote: from Chriss Grube on 4:17 pm on July 16, 2001

A decent ipsc shooter will beat a great IDPA shooter every time IF the IPSC guy slows down enough to keep all the hits in the 5 zone. IDPA is accuracy based where IPSC is Speed. The rules are a little different but once you get used to the stupid reload style and don't forget to engage targets in Tactical order you set.

---

[BigDave]

Duane,

   In regards to your comment about going strong hand only.  Perhaps I should have been a bit more clear.  In the perticular scenario I was shooting, I was behinde a Bianchi barricade with 3 targets along a line to a 1 o'clock line (If I was standing at the center of a clock).  When pie'ing the targets, the closet target was the last to be shot.  the center of the target was actually at about 11:45, or just left of center and about 3 yds away.  During the COF description, people were looking and describing how difficult the 3 target (and last one of the COF, BTW) would be to engage.  I saw the a few of the shooters in front of me struggle with postion.  I thought, instead of struggling with finding a balance point where I could concentrate on recoil control, I dropped my weak hand, swung to the near target, and engaged it clean.

Well, that was rather long winded, sorry.  But anyway, I think there are times in IDPA COF's where going to one's strong hand would be advantagous from a tactical standpoint (insofar as IDPA is concerned).  

[Chriss Grube]

The DW at TDI was or is the Dan Wesson Invitational at Tactical Defense Institute in Owego NY. It uses rules that are similar to IDPA. They increased A zone behind cover to 75% and the -1 is -2 and each point down is 1 second instead of .5. It was a good match with a great prize table. None of the IDPA luck of the draw stuff. The top three got guns and then they raffled off 2 more which benefited a local youth organization. DW donated the guns and They had a bunch of stuff from other manufactures.

By stupid reload I mean the Tac reload. In the real world it will be slide lock.

[Duane Thomas]

Yeah, I've never had much use for the tac-load as a real-world technique. I do, however, know how to to do them. And that's because I think it's an excellent RANGE technique. Especially when when you're going to a class at which an immense number of rounds will be fired, it comes in really handy to know how to do a tac-load so you won't constantly have to be bending down to pick your magazines off the ground after every time you reload. And as often as we have muddy ground in Washington state, it's also nice to be able to keep your mags from getting packed with crud, too.

[Patrick Sweeney]

It sounds like the tac-loads concept is one of those "good ideas" that we all strive for but jettison as soon as we hit the real stuff, like counting your shots.  I'll try, I'm sure, but I'll bet my reloads (if any) will be from slide-lock in the real world.

The shooting pace in IDPA sounds similar to that of ICORE.  I won the Stock Division of the Wheelgunners Revenge II in 2000.  On one stage I slipped into IPSC mode, and hosed like mad.  My raw time was by far the best of anyone on that stage.  But the +18 seconds I incurred from +1 and +2 hits killed me.  Without that time, I might have won the whole match.  (And if I'd turned that corner at just the right time, Mariska Hargitay would have fallen in love with me, too.)

I can dream, can't I?

[Duane Thomas]

Who is Mariska Hargitay?

[Nik Habicht]

Duane,

You need a TV!!

Patrick,

Mariska, Mariska, Mariska ...... I'm with you all the way...LOL

[Duane Thomas]

Good God, no. I am a recovering videoholic. If I had a TV I'd have no life.

[Patrick Sweeney]

Daughter of Jane Mansfield and some lucky SOB.

[Nik Habicht]

Duane,

Guns, Guns, and more Guns and writing about Guns does not = a life!  LOL

[Duane Thomas]

Okay, NOW I see the big deal. WOW. Click on this link to see the big deal, too:

http://io22000.homestead.com/mariska.html

The lucky bastard's name BTW is Mickey (Miklos) Hargitay.

[Duane Thomas]

Okay, does shooting guns, watching movies, reading books, reading comic books, going to parties with my friends, hanging out with and making love to my girlfriend, writing articles to pay the bills, and working on the proposal for my next book = a life?

[Chriss Grube]

Duane,

I'm not sure since I haven't read a comic book since I was about 14, Hanging out and making love to your girlfriend might get me shot or divorced, and I don't write for a magazine. Oh hell I'm drunk again forget it I never could do math while I'm hammered. I can definetltly recommend Schirmnoff Ice though! Don't mind the spelling I fell Like Mike Fletcher now!