CHA-LEE Posted July 7, 2011 Author Share Posted July 7, 2011 latech15> You make many good points. As I said in the beginning of this thread, I may be wasting my time on this project of shooting Limited Minor. But I wanted to leave no stone unturned. I really like how the M&P Platform shoots and feels so I figured I would use it as a "Light Weight" comparison to the heavy steel frame EAA Limited minor gun I am building up. I almost have my EAA Limited Minor gun all done so I will get a chance to do some back to back testing soon. As for shooting faster...... We can only shoot as fast as we can see. If shooting Minor allows me to recover post shot and process the sight picture sooner then I can break the next shot sooner. I know my finger can go faster so why not venture down the Minor path to see if I can make more use of that skill? Why settle for .20 - .25 splits shooting Major if I can shoot .15 - .20 splits shooting Minor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Because you can shoot .15-.2's shooting major. You need to shoot .1-.15 shooting minor to make up 1 second on a 20 round stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 Ok, I will set that as a benchmark then. If my splits are not a tenth faster with minor then I am wasting my time. It's good to have some kind of benchmark to strive towards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 (edited) Yes Edited July 8, 2011 by Loves2Shoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Would that gun explode if you shot major with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 Waktasz> I don't think it would "Explode" but the slide might crack. The slides recoil spring tunnel batters into the plastic frame so its like ramming into a shock buff. I don't think it would be that much more prone to cracking verses the stock uncut slide due to it hitting this relatively soft stop. Steel on steel in a metal frame gun is a different story though. More than anything I don't think that the slide would have enough forward momentum to properly return the front sight to an aligned state post shot. This is at least what I experienced the last time I setup a lightened minor slide and shot major PF loads through it. I would have to grip WAY harder to get the front sight to return properly when shooting major PF loads through a lightened slide gun. Excessive grip force really messes with my ability to pull the trigger quickly and smoothly so it wasn't worth it to used a lightened slide on my EAA when shooting major PF loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Gotcha. I was just wondering if you would gain anything going to a lighter gun, that transitions better than your heavy EAA, but still shooting major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 I finally got the Taylor Freelance base pads in and set them up with Grams 11 coil springs and Bolen followers. I had to cut a little bit off the back end of the followers to make them fit in the magazine tubes but that was expected as they are made for STI/SVI mag tubes which are longer front to back. When I got it all together I test racked some rounds through the magazines and noticed that some of them would have nose dive issues hitting the base of the feed ramp on the barrel. I measured the magazine feed lip width and the few mags that were screwing up had a feed lip width of .375 and the ones that worked were at .385 so I opened up the feed lips on the narrow magazines to match the others and they started feeding perfectly. Every mag can hold 20 rounds and they are still easily reloadable. With some more fiddling I may be able to get 21 rounds in there but that will be another project. Since the gun and mags are ready to rumble I am going to give this bad boy a run at the next USPSA match this weekend. I am sure there will be some teething pains running a different gun and mags, but I have to start some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonovanM Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Can't wait to see if .10's out of a non-comped gun are possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 DonavanM> Why wouldn't .10 or lower splits be possible on a non-comped gun? I have been able to achieve .10 sec or below splits shooting my EAA Witness Limited using Major PF loads on a fairly regular basis. For example, in the blow video I had a .08 split on the third target in the last shooting position. When setup correctly auto load guns can complete the cycle process in .03 - .05 sec. If you can manage the recoil properly and run your finger fast enough you should be able to shoot .10 splits on just about any gun, comped or not. Compted guns just make it easier because there is less recoil to manage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torogi Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 cha-lee, your splits for major load is amazing!! I think one factor for me affecting my split is smoke. sights goes back to original POA quick, but I cant 'see' the A zone with all the smoke especially targets close together like your video, it would be just like white cloud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonovanM Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) DonavanM> Why wouldn't .10 or lower splits be possible on a non-comped gun? I have been able to achieve .10 sec or below splits shooting my EAA Witness Limited using Major PF loads on a fairly regular basis. For example, in the blow video I had a .08 split on the third target in the last shooting position. When setup correctly auto load guns can complete the cycle process in .03 - .05 sec. If you can manage the recoil properly and run your finger fast enough you should be able to shoot .10 splits on just about any gun, comped or not. Compted guns just make it easier because there is less recoil to manage. OMFG... and you're hoping to shoot EVEN FASTER than that with minor?! I have never seen anything or anyone that fast who wasn't running a comp, seriously. What's your bill drill time? 1.2? 1.3? I take it you're resetting the trigger as the slide cycles? Is the length of your reset pretty important? Makes me want to get out to the range and practice Edited July 23, 2011 by DonovanM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 DonovanM> I am not sure what my Bill Drill times are, its probably been at least 2 years since I have done one. As far as resetting the trigger, my EAA Limited gun has a very limited trigger travel and minimal reset distance. I think the overall trigger travel is like 3mm and the reset distance is about 1.5mm. Having a trigger that requires very little forward movement to reset makes shooting fast easy. This combined with using a trigger return spring that is strong enough to push my finger back post shot to the reset point makes it even easier. When I press the trigger to break the shot, after the shot breaks all I have to do is release tension on my trigger finger and the trigger will push my finger back far enough to reset. I don't have to "row" my trigger finger back to reset. My EAA trigger breaks at about 1.75 lbs so it does not take much effort to break the shot which allows me to shoot relaxed without feeling like I have to mash the trigger to shoot fast. So this is a long answer to your question. Is the trigger tuned to my shooting style which enables me to shoot fast? Hell Yes it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 I gave the M&P 40 Minor gun a go at a match this weekend. I had some nose dive jams with the high capacity magazines, but I think this is due to me using undersized brass which allows the top round to tilt downwards more than a “Normal” sized brass would. I will need to load up some more ammo with normal sized cases to see if this resolves the nose dive jams. Other than that it was fun to shoot. The gun shoots with zero muzzle flip and the front sight returns right back to an aligned state post shot. The one thing that surprised me was that it has a sharper than expected felt recoil, but it makes sense given how light this gun is. Given how much lighter the gun is I had a few instances of overshooting my transition points during some of the stage runs. This combined with not having a thumb safety had me feeling a little strange shooting it through out the match. I probably will need 5000 – 10000 rounds to get use to how this thing feels and shoots to get really comfortable with shooting it fast and effectively. But so far I think it turned out really nice. There is still a lot of testing to do with this blaster but at least I have gotten the ball rolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSteel Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Cha-Lee, I've run my 40 Pro with the same mag extensions but using the ISMI springs and stock followers with no nose dive issues using the same U-die I used with my EAA Limited loading. I'm only loading to 19/18 but did not have any feed issues (Zero 180gr JHP, Major) Is it possible that your recoil spring may be too light? I only ran for approx 100rnds before going to an STI platform but if there was even one nose dive issue I would have been disappointed since that is what drove me away from my Limited. I also never had any feed issues when I was running my 9mm Pro in limited minor with the same mag set up for approx 5K rnds, no issues. I think once you find what theproblem is, your gonna love the M&P!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 NoSteel> The challenge is that I fully undersize the brass with the EGW U-Die. So the whole case from top to bottom is slimmed down to .415 diameter. But when the bullet is pushed in during relaoding the portion that holds the bullet gets expanded back out to .420 but below that to the end of the case its still only .415. This step down in diameter between the front and back of the round is what causes this "Pointing Down" situation for the top round in the magazine. This is not an issue when you use a U-Die in a press because it only resizes 3/4 of the case but leaves the base and rim at the stock .420 diameter. To make a long story short, I need to reload using stock sized .420 diameter brass instead of the fully undersized .415 brass. I thought I could get away with using the undersized brass but its not going to work. The magazines are setup with the Taylor Freelance 140mm base pads, grams 11 coil spring and a Bolen follower that has been shortened slightly to fit in the shorter mag tubes. I am pretty sure that this spring/follower setup will work fine once I start using standard diameter brass. It also allows me to get 20 rounds in each mag which is easily reloadable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonovanM Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 DonovanM> I am not sure what my Bill Drill times are, its probably been at least 2 years since I have done one. As far as resetting the trigger, my EAA Limited gun has a very limited trigger travel and minimal reset distance. I think the overall trigger travel is like 3mm and the reset distance is about 1.5mm. Having a trigger that requires very little forward movement to reset makes shooting fast easy. This combined with using a trigger return spring that is strong enough to push my finger back post shot to the reset point makes it even easier. When I press the trigger to break the shot, after the shot breaks all I have to do is release tension on my trigger finger and the trigger will push my finger back far enough to reset. I don't have to "row" my trigger finger back to reset. My EAA trigger breaks at about 1.75 lbs so it does not take much effort to break the shot which allows me to shoot relaxed without feeling like I have to mash the trigger to shoot fast. So this is a long answer to your question. Is the trigger tuned to my shooting style which enables me to shoot fast? Hell Yes it is A long answer, and one I appreciated! Thanks Relaxing my trigger finger instead of pushing it forward, I think, will help with my adequate-but-not-super-speedy splits. Thanks for the food for thought! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 I pulled this blaster out of the safe the other night and I was greeted with some mild rust on the slide where I was grabbing it to rack the slide. I guess the bare stainless steel can't handle sweaty hands. I have stripped the slide down and am having it sand blasted again then hard chrome coated. Hopefully the hard chrome will keep the rust at bay. We will see how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Mine is polished stainless and does the same. I wouldn't say mine rusts, but it does "stain". Right where my greasy fingers grab the slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 I finally got the slide back from the getting hard chromed. It looks great and I am sure that the coating will keep the rust at bay. Now I have to put it all back together. Once I get it all back together I will take some more pictures and post them up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latech15 Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I would like to see pictures, but I really want to see video of this thing running FASTER than your EAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 latech15> We will see how it goes. I still have some teething pains to overcome with the mags and ammo. But I will eventually get it figured out. I have shot so many major rounds through my EAA its hard to make a fair comparison just yet. I probably need 5000 - 10,000 rounds through this M&P before I can make a solid call on it being better or worse. I also have a lightened top end to put on my EAA to try minor on it as well. So I don't think I will have a definitive answer any time soon. All I know is that it will be fun trying all this stuff out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben-Sons Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Any updates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 Not really. I have to load up some more ammo that is dedicated to just this gun so it will feed properly. But have not made it a priority to do it. I will probably resurrect this project over the winter or in the spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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