Cage Match? Beretta vs. Benelli

[Ken Kwiat]

From a SportingClays perspective.

Just looking for some input from folks re: the two semi-autos that seem to be the leading the pack from a technology standpoint: Beretta 391 Teknys Gold Sporting vs. the Benelli SuperSport.

The 391 line has an incredible reputation within the Clays community so their latest spiffed up model likely won't disappoint. Anyone put this one through the paces? Availability seems to be spotty, though.

But, the Benelli SuperSport with the ComforTech recoil reduction system, cryo-treated barrel, ported barrel, carbon fiber stock, etc. looks pretty intriguing as well. MSRPs are close, about $200 more for the Beretta. Has anyone put their hands on the Benelli?

[ranger]

I shoot a lot of Sporting Clays in the Southeast. I see a LOT of Beretta 390s and 391s in competition. I see some Browning Gold Sportings but those are mostly with sponsored shooters. I seldom (never?) see a Benelli in competition unless it with a Hunter Class shooter.

At most tournaments in the Southeast, the shotgun breakdown is about half over/under and half Beretta 390/391.

Regards, Scott Carter

[ranger]

Oh, re. the Beretta Teknys. Most SC shooters use the "standard" Beretta 390 or 391 sporting clay model and add a few modifications rather than paying $1200+ for a Teknys.

I currently shoot a Browning 325 Euro but I competed and won with a 390 and 391. A "stock" Beretta 391 12 gauge Sporting Clays 30 inch model is the best deal going for the money in Sporting Clays - I saw one recently in GA for $799 at a dealer. If buying today, I would get the Optima choke barrel versus the original MobilChoke barrel. The Optima barrel is "overbored" from the factory (not as much as the Broning but more than the Beretta MC).

Scott

[tightloop]

Beretta owns both groups, so it might say Benelli, but is really a Beretta gun..

[Flexmoney]

TL,

General Motors owns Cadillac and Saturn. I won't say one is a better car than the other , but they are certainly different?

Are you talking about comparing models? Or, some other (possible) factor...like sponsorship/support of the sport?

[tightloop]

Flex

I agree they are different. Beretta cut its teeth on competition clays and Benelli is trying to garner a piece of that market. They are both terrific guns and either will get the job done in a grand fashion. It is kind of like STI and SVI, they are very very similar but each has their following. Beretta just has a jump on the clays market and autoloaders.

Kind of like Camaro and Firebird in the old days, both street hot rods, both owned by GM, depends on your preference..

[Flexmoney]

ahhhh...thanks for 'splaining it for me.

[EricW]

Hands down Beretta. For under $800 bucks you walk out of the store with a gun that runs 100%, eats everything, and comes with every choke tube and accessory you need to go play. Well...I did buy a $16 cheek pad and a Briley L. Mod tube, but that was it.

Frankly, the stock 391's patterns so tight, it's hard to believe that you can get much more pattern by overboring. Light Mod is all you ever need anyway, so it's tough to know what the point would be - except to spend money for its own sake.

Is it obvious I have a preference?

[ranger]

Couple more comments on this thread. First, the Benellis are usually recoil operated and light weight. That equates to recoil. Most Sporting Clays shooters seek low recoil and that is the key reason that Benelli is not a player in the SC game. Great shotgun but the high recpoil factor is considered a liability by SC shooters who shoot 200 - 500 rounds in 3 day match.

The reason for the overbore is, again, for reduced felt recoil and improved patterning. The Browning Invector plus is about .740. The original Beretta MC was .721 (I think) with the new Beretta Optima bore at .735.

This is not a knock on Benelli. Sporting Clays is a game and the best tools of that game rise to the top. Sporting Clays, Skeet, Trap, and Hunting all have different requirements just like USPA, Bianchi, Bullseye, etc.

Scott

[Ken Kwiat]

Scott, Eric, Flex, TL...

The answers that I am getting Clays shooters about the Berettas sounds akin to asking IPSC shooters about the 1911 design -- pretty compelling and consistent. (I think even Flex will have to agree with the genius of that design ).

It does look like Benelli is taking square aim at getting a "reduced recoil feel" out of their inertia-based system with their new ComforTech system. No doubt, if it works as advertised it has serious ground to make up in the Clays game as Scott points out. As I ask Clays shooters in Colorado, I get a similar response as Scott's as to the increased shift from O/Us to semis, and the 391 is mentioned in the next breath.

So, I've got one coming. This time I won't get the strange looks at the Clays club carrying my 3-gun peaked SuperX. You should have seen the looks that Henning W. got with his Dillon-blue stocked, 10+ round extended tube 1100 -- pretty funny.

A couple of guys even stopped and asked, "what the heck is that?"

Now I just need to figure out how to keep a gun moving while I break a shot (and other foreign skills). Any good clays instruction videos of mention?

Thanks to everyone that chimed in -- I appreciate it.

DVC. Ken

[tightloop]

Sunrise Productions with Gil Ash makes some really good clays tapes. Get in touch with Gil at OSP, Optimum Shotgun Performance. do a web search. Jerry Myers is his sidekick on the tapes and they are really good.

[EricW]

So, I've got one coming. This time I won't get the strange looks at the Clays club carrying my 3-gun peaked SuperX. You should have seen the looks that Henning W. got with his Dillon-blue stocked, 10+ round extended tube 1100 -- pretty funny.

A couple of guys even stopped and asked, "what the heck is that?"

Why not just use your 3-gun shotgun? Who cares what people think? As long as people act like humans and don't wear "Kill a Commie for Mommy" t-shirts there should be no problem.

[LongHair1957]

I have the Beretta AL391 Gold Sporting Clays Silver model.

I have been very happy with this after using Over-Unders for several years....I finally bought one of the "Dark Side=semi-auto's". I havent gone back. for this sport this one is great.... My buddy (who has a benelli) is getting rid of his and getting one like mine...

BUT, The main thing with the clay sports is GET ONE THAT FITS YOU!

[tightloop]

Nice looking Piece...

[Ken Kwiat]

Eric,

So my wardrobe may have been the problem?

Good question about just using a 3gun version. I actually wouldn't have a problem if I had a set up that better transitioned to Clays as well. Having gone to the expense of joining a clays club, wanting to put more time into it, etc. I'm ready to get a specialized tool. I first tried to convert my Win SuperX1 but the parts are getting so difficult to find that I'm ready for a current production model. I may be posting the SX1 for sale here soon. Bottom line, my experiences with the SuperX are similar to what folks relayed in the below link.

Clays Forum/WinSX1 Comments I guess I was part of that "SX1 Cult" for awhile but am ready to throw in the towel.

LongHair: I second TL's comment -- they are very good looking guns. I've got an experienced fitter standing by.

B.R.,

Ken

[ranger]

[Now I just need to figure out how to keep a gun moving while I break a shot (and other foreign skills). Any good clays instruction videos of mention?]

Ken, not stopping your shotgun while breaking the trigger is an issue for all "reformed" pistol shooters. My mantra used to be "miss in front, miss in front..." until I got used to keeping the shotgun swinging.

One reason for the move to longer barrels is the inertia thing - the longer heavier barrels seem to assist with follow through.

Good luck,

Scott

[Ken Kwiat]

Scott,

I like the "miss in front, miss in front" mantra -- I will try that. I was planning to go today, in fact, but 8"+ of snow has squelched my enthusiasm!

Part of my problem with the SX1 was that I only had a 26" barrel for it and have been looking for a 30" for awhile. I ordered my 391 with 30" so I'm glad to hear your comments re: intertia.

All of that being said, it's time to take a lesson and watch some videos though. In the past I seem to have gotten away with some bad habits shooting trap but they are really apparent with my clays shooting, esp. with the crossing shots.

Is there a "DVC" salutation equivalent for Clays?

Take care,

Ken

[Irishlad]

Luckily, shotgun moving target games are "low tech" and as much as manufacturers try, I think it will stay that way given the nature of shot patterns.

Simple gas operated shotguns like the Beretta and Remington 1100 will do just fine with proper stock fit and shooting instruction. Very little is gained with overbored bbls, porting, extended chokes, etc, etc.

When I "help" a rifle/pistol shooter with shotgunning, I just tell them to do every thing opposite; don't look at the "sights", jerk the trigger, and never keep the gun still. By the end of the day they can't shoot pistol or shotgun properly.

Just kidding; time and practice cure all.

Good luck

[gobabygo]

That 391 Silver is beautiful.

Everyone I've talked to, and most forums are in agreement that the Beretta 391 is THE autoloader to get for clays games (if you're going to get an autoloader). The problem is that I would also like the potential to use it to also play around in 3-gun or similar shotgun sports, and the limited mag capacity of the 391 is a real bummer.

What makes the 391 so much better than the Wincester SX2 or Browning Gold for clays games?

[EricW]

What makes the 391 so much better than the Wincester SX2 or Browning Gold for clays games?

Unlike the SX2/Gold - the 391 actually works out of the box.

[ranger]

The Beretta 390/391 is the top auto for Sporting Clays because of reliability. Gas autos are preferred due to reduced recoil. The Beretta 390 and 391 are absolutely famous for working all the time and never breaking. They require minimal maintenance and cleaning.

The Remington 1100 and 1187 are very soft-shooting but they have relatively fragile gas system with o-rings, etc. I have had multiple 1100s with a variety of parts breaking in the receiver group - I kept a fairly extensive spare parts kits for the 1100/1187 in the shooting bag. Yes, the 1100 is popular in IPSC. However, SC shooters shoot a lot of shells and the wear and tear adds up.

I love my Browning Gold Sporting Clays 12 gauge 30 inch. I bought this when the Gold SC model was first introduced several years ago. It took me from D class to B class. It has extremely low recoil and comes from the factory with overbored barrel and porting. It has a neat "speed feed" fixture. I like the muzzle heavy balance. The knock on the Gold is reliability. Most dedicated Gold shooters carry two Golds - not just spare parts, I mean complete shotguns. Specifically, the Gold is known for breaking firing pins at the worst time. I broke a firing pin and my bolt handle sheared off flush with the bolt at a tournament. In the Southeast, most Gold shooters are sponsored by Browning and have several Golds with them as backups.

The Winchester SX2 is basically a copy of the Gold with reduced features (cheaper grade wood, no speed feed feature, etc.). SX2 has same issues as Gold.

I started with a Remington 1187 then moved to a Browning Gold Sporting Clays. I then switched to a Browning 325 with 32" barrels (over/under). The advantage of the OU is perceived balance and the ability to use two chokes for two different target presentations. Sporting Clay tournamnets now seldom (never?) throw singles so all presentations are pairs - true, report, or following.

I had a 390 and a 391 and enjoyed them greatly. I sold them so that I would be forced to focus on the Browning 325 OU. Switching among multiple shotguns is fun but not (IMHO) the route to competitive success.

[gobabygo]

Thanks for the responses guys. I guess you need 2 shotguns, one for trap/skeet/clay games, and a special one for the IPSC type games.

As I plan on using this more for clay type games, it sounds like the 391 is the way to go (in an semi-auto). I didn't know that the Browning Gold/SX2 wasn't as reliable. I like reliable.