9MM Case length too short?

[shooter57]

The best way I learned to sort my 9mm brass is look for Luger they go in the reload can the 380auto in another can and anything else goes in another can I take to the club to donate for jr, rifle loads.

[JasonandMichelle]

Firstly, I know I'm bumping a two year old thread. I thought this was a great thread, so I wanted to comment.

I'm fairly new to reloading (about one month and 1200 rounds in with a single stage press. Dillon 650 on order through Enos Store). I just spent the last 1.5 hours checking case overall length on my tumbled mixed range .40s and 9mm. I thought I was being too anal, but this thread proves it. My OAL is always +\- .003, so I'm okay, but I've always just assumed if my brass isn't EXACTLY at or below max COAL, I'd probably die (exaggeration).

Anyhow, this is a great thread for new reloaders who are anal about everything. Trust me.

[ima45dv8]

I'm glad you brought it up again. Not to sound like we're nonchalant about reloading practices, but the fact is, exact COL consistency isn't as much of a concern with pistol cartridges (except Bullseye matches) as with rifles.

For these games, a certain amount of variance is acceptable so long as they run well in your gun.

[gcozzens]

Sorry to bump this thread again, but if the COL varies then doesn't the crimp also vary? If the crimp varies due to longer cases or is non-existent due to a shorter case, can't that cause feed issues as well as over pressure issues? 

[Hi-Power Jack]

Good to see you FNG's actually reading back issues    

 

"Crimp" on a 9mm is actually pretty straight  up and down.   Just to remove the bell

you created so you could insert the bullet into the case.

 

Shouldn't have too much impact on feeding or pressure, if the cases aren't TOO short    

[MemphisMechanic]

On 6/1/2018 at 2:45 PM, gcozzens said:

Sorry to bump this thread again, but if the COL varies then doesn't the crimp also vary? If the crimp varies due to longer cases or is non-existent due to a shorter case, can't that cause feed issues as well as over pressure issues? 

 

In 9mm “crimp” just enough to remove all of the outward flare. No more. Just straighten the walls. 

 

 

[MemphisMechanic]

On 5/10/2013 at 10:59 PM, JasonandMichelle said:

I thought I was being too anal, but this thread proves it. My OAL is always +\- .003, so I'm okay...

 

I can’t even tell you how many recipes I’ve put together over the years with around .010” of overall length variation that were scary accurate. Find a bullet your gun really likes, the OAL range that makes it happiest, and a consistent powder for that bullet.

 

Right now my ammo slops out of my 650 using a BBI 125, 3.7gr of Prima V, and my OALs vary between 1.007” and 1.119”

 

That much variation drove me nuts when I first started loading in 2008, but I get it now: this ammo chronos with a standard deviation of 1.68 and it groups 1.75” - 2.25” at 25yds depending on what kind of day the operator is having. Those are the measurements that really matter.

 

It’s more important to figure out if your gun shoots a specific bullet better around 1.110” or 1.125” or 1.150” than it will ever be to get the OALs all within +/- .001” in a handgun round.

 

Edited June 11, 2018 by MemphisMechanic

[Calbid]

I am frustrated with my reloads.  One out of 20 results in no ejection.  I am using a Kimber Micro 9.  love the gun, wish my reloaded bullets would shoot, factory loads work ok.  I clean bullets with liquid tumbler.  Use a progressive to resize, put in primer, dump powder, seat bullet.  

I have given many of my bullets to my shooter buddies, and they have never had a problem with my bullets.  I wonder if my Kimber has tighter tollerances.  ??  Thinking of checking cartridge length.

 

[Calbid]

More on my Kimber, shot 50 rounds factory, all shot perfectly, measured them at .750, have loaded 50 that measured between .740 and .750, will check them at range next week. 

[rjcourtney]

This discussion is very interesting especially anachronism's comment.  I have a Star Supper model A which shoots 9x23 or .38 super.  I bought an aftermarket barrel to shoot 9 x 19.  I am having a terrible time getting consistent reload  rounds to fire in it.  The rounds which do not fire tend to be .744'ish.  After going through 50 or so cases I can come up with only a few greater than .750.  Do I need to have my gunsmith work on the head space?  I can take these same rounds and run them through my Ruger LC9 and never skip a beat.

 

I've also noticed this same issue in my Glock 30, .45cal.

 

rc

[CCD]

I've found that the varation in the lenght of 9mm cases directly affects the amount of crimp on the case. The shorter cases are below the minimum lenght in my case gauge. The reloaded round sits too deep in the gauge and I can get light primer strikes in my Glock. I use a stainless steel match grade barrel in my Glock so I can shoot lead bullets. The SS barrel fully supports the case. Federal primers solve the issue 99% of the time. The light primer strikes cases will fire 95% of the time in my M&P 9mm & other 9mm's. I've changed the striker, spring, etc in my glock to no avail. Also tried using other Glocks & still have an occassional light primer strike. Primer seating is correct. I'm convinced the cases shorter than minimum case lenght are the issue. To verify I will sort 250 brass cases shorter than .754 to see if there is a difference in light primer strikes between the .754" longer & shorter cases to compare.

[ClickSnickBoom]

So how do you get consistent c.o.a.l. from 9mm with case lengths all over the map?

[ClickSnickBoom]

Everything I'm reading says nobody trims 9mm.

This case head spaces on the mouth. If not trimmed it seems to me that c.o.a.l. will be all over the map. Which also seems to like a perfect opportunity for huge pressure variations due to variance in bullet seating depth.

So my confusion comes from someone who has fired 10k rounds plus and never trimmed a single case. It also comes from reading loading manuals that are specific about max case length.

So if it doesn't matter how long or short the 9mm case is why bother including the info in a loading manual.

It seems like trimming would speed up the process instead of changing the depth of bullet seat die for every case I load.

Someone please explain why 9mm case length is not important when both my manuals say it is.

[xrayfk05]

Case length has no influence on COAL of how deep the bullet is in the case whatsoever.

Don't overthink it, no-one trims pistol brass for a reason.

[Sarge]

4 minutes ago, ClickSnickBoom said:

Everything I'm reading says nobody trims 9mm.

This case head spaces on the mouth. If not trimmed it seems to me that c.o.a.l. will be all over the map. Which also seems to like a perfect opportunity for huge pressure variations due to variance in bullet seating depth.

So my confusion comes from someone who has fired 10k rounds plus and never trimmed a single case. It also comes from reading loading manuals that are specific about max case length.

So if it doesn't matter how long or short the 9mm case is why bother including the info in a loading manual.

It seems like trimming would speed up the process instead of changing the depth of bullet seat die for every case I load.

Someone please explain why 9mm case length is not important when both my manuals say it is.

Because it just isn’t. OAL is the same if you accidentally load a .380 case while loading 9mm. A trimmed case means nothing

[ClickSnickBoom]

So if one case is .754 the other .748 one bullet won't be seated further than the other changing the pressure?

[ClickSnickBoom]

Well it seems to me I've added another reason to not own pistols.

No need or use for them is just the start.

Now I'll add that reloading for them is confusing at best. 

Too much time reloading for rifle I'm guessing.

When a 2 different reloading manuals say that case length needs to be precise yet no one that reloads 9mm pays any attention to it. 

With that said, I'll just continue to defend my home with my 2 12 gauges and bring home meat for my freezer with my 30.06

[AHI]

That maybe the best thing for you. Unlike rifle  pistol cases get shorter not longer . As they are used over and over. 9mm cases and all pistol cases for that matter don't very that much. Happen to know a few bench rest shooters that don't trim ther rifle cases.

[Sarge]

2 hours ago, ClickSnickBoom said:

So if one case is .754 the other .748 one bullet won't be seated further than the other changing the pressure?

Nope

[GrumpyOne]

2 hours ago, ClickSnickBoom said:

So if one case is .754 the other .748 one bullet won't be seated further than the other changing the pressure?

Your press is set up for an OAL. No matter what case you put in the press, it is always going to be that OAL. The bullet will only seem to seat deeper in a longer case, but it is actually at the same depth, it is only the longer case making it seem to be set deeper. And since the area inside the case after the bullet is seated is the same in a shorter case or longer case (all things being equal and your press is seating bullets to the same OAL), there is no difference in pressure.

Yes, most pistols head space off of the case mouth, and there is a maximum length for most pistol brass, but, as stated before, pistol brass generally gets shorter, not longer, after firing...so trimming is not needed. The reason that most reloading manuals are stating what they are about brass length is that they are quoting SAAMI specs, but not every chamber of every gun is cut exactly the same...

[AHI]

What he said.

[HPBT]

As a first time pistol reloader like me I'll agree it is alot of info to gather up.Ya got OAL,head space, need jump time before bullet hit the rifleing etc.I was all over the net writeing this down,that down, printing stuff I found.Then it dawned on me that was all for nothing.Like lots have said here all guns are machined different.So I checked my sig and beretta for max COL with the sliding bullet, 124 grn.speer tmj, and the beretta came out at 1.300 and the sig was 1.228. I checked each gun 10 times to make sure.There is no

way i could load a round that long as it would almost fall out of the case  before it would hit the riflings. next i checked head space,beretta was .751 sig was .760.Next i slugged the beretta barrel .347 on the lands and .355 in the grooves.The guns told me their limits.Haven't checked the sig yet.Most of the info went in wood stove.I saved info on the bullets i bought, speer,berry's and precision bullets and thats what i am going to use.

 

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

I’ve loaded well over 30 thousand 9mm rounds over the past few years and have never checked any of the brass.  I’ve yet to have an issue. 

[kydave19]

Bump to an old thread from a new guy who looked up this very subject.  Being brand new to reloading (but a shooter for half century) as I'm putting together a kit I'm overwhelmed with info.  The case length (as opposed to OAL) came up & since I spend an hour last night going through a box of once fired, cleaned & polished 9mm brass I just bought, to separate by headstock (1 group WIN, 1 group Blazer, 1 group FC, and 1 group everything else) I measured some at random from each of the three branded/separate groups.  VERY few made it to .750, with most of them running around .742 +/-.  Glad it's something I don't have to worry about, but I might buy a small bag of new brass tomorrow just to measure case length.  Thanks!

Edited March 4 by kydave19

[mfaith]

I've picked up a lot of brass, and never trimmed a piece.