Ammo Catching @ match

[MarkCO]

So... my question.

If someone is flipping a stick/hatchet/rock/flipping a round out of their pistol around you and it accidentley flies over (or blows up) and pops you in the face.... Do you smack them one on the nose..or not?

At to the (blows up), no, but I hope it is one of the guys here who said it is fine...it's called "notice".

[BoyGlock]

...some for safety reasons...

Flawed logic there. Changing from one method to one that is less likely to injure your hand is reasonable. To change to another method that DOES have some safety concerns...more like rationalization.

Changing my methosd to one I think less likely to injure me is a safety concern and logical. In our sports theres no such thing as absolute safety, as posted above, we run w/ loaded guns, load ammo beyond specs to make major, etc. So, I fail to see where the flaw in logic there. When is a thought or idea /action thats reasonable and rational become flawed logic?

ETA: Mods, why is my post count stuck (again) at 90? TIA

Edited November 11, 2011 by BoyGlock

[JKSNIPER]

Worked for over 25 years in law enforcement 20 years with our ESU on a concrete range and never saw a round dropped on the deck detonate.

I HAVE seen the detonation of a round during unloading/clearing exercises.

I would say the safest thing to do is grasp the rear area of the slide and pull only forcefully enough to extract/eject the round in the chamber while tilting the pistol's ejection port towards the ground.

This way if an unintended detonation occurs the shooters hand will probably be out of the way of any ghak that comes flying out.

I agree with ima45dv8. Just because I do something wrong a bunch of times and suffer no consequences from it does not mean it's ok to do.

Its also NO guarantee that I'll get away with it the next time I do it.

Have a friend in New England who removed his shooting glasses because they kept fogging up on him.

He chambered another round in his bolt gun and it blew up on him showering his face/eyes with brass pieces.

Multiple eye surgeries later he's night blind and had to be retired from his PD because of it.

At the time it happened there were a bunch of guys on the line shooting W/O eye protection....and they all got away with it without injury.

I hated wearing eye pro and still do but I ALWAYS wear it from that day forward no matter how uncomfortable I am or how unlikely I think it is that anything bad will happen.

IMHO (Just my opinion guys) USPSA should make a rule to forbid this action not because it's "showboating" or for any other reason other than it has the potential to cause a serious injury.

Thats it.

Just my .02

JK

[The Happy Gila]

+1 for JK

[a matt]

Most every GM I have watched will flip the pistol up and move the slide in the same motion rather slowly. They make it look easy. I enjoy watching folks try it and send the round farther than spent brass and chase it. WTFlip are they thinking?

Edited January 3, 2012 by a matt

[Steve RA]

Since it seems to be the general agreement that it is usually .40 S&W that this happens to the most, why not just outlaw .40s ???

[Biloxi23]

I saw this happen at the SWAT Round Up in Orlando. the gun was a Glock 21, and when teh round detonated, the had his hand over the ejection port. It was an ugly wound.

[colt22man]

I've gotten lax on the unload and show clear when ROing. I do not like the fast flip and catch. I've let guys get away with it. I do insist on a good view of the chamber after the flip and catch but...The possiblity of the ejector striking the primer with the slide facing up is greatly increased and safety is compromised. I intend to be more hard nosed this year. Just read the recent Front Sight article, that'll change your mind. As for the hand over the ejection port to catch the round rather than allowing it to fall to the ground, lightening will strike, not good. As RO's we need to insist on safer handling even for the very experienced competitors. The new guys will notice as well as everyone else on the squad.

[Singlestack]

I've gotten lax on the unload and show clear when ROing. I do not like the fast flip and catch. I've let guys get away with it. I do insist on a good view of the chamber after the flip and catch but...The possiblity of the ejector striking the primer with the slide facing up is greatly increased and safety is compromised. I intend to be more hard nosed this year. Just read the recent Front Sight article, that'll change your mind. As for the hand over the ejection port to catch the round rather than allowing it to fall to the ground, lightening will strike, not good. As RO's we need to insist on safer handling even for the very experienced competitors. The new guys will notice as well as everyone else on the squad.

You can not stop someone from flipping a round no matter how much you don't like it. I hate it as much as anyone but there is no rule against it.

[Jon Merricks]

I do not like the fast flip and catch.

Got your own set of rules?

[Seale]

I never saw or even think of this as showboating , like what gentlemanjim says i just rack the slide and catch the ammo the gun is already empty before i move my other hand to catch the ammo . I would find it very shallow for competitive shooters to think this as a showboating because theres nothing special about it.

the only reason I do this is I dont like to drop my ammo on the ground its sometimes hard to find once its on the ground. especially the range where I shoot it has grass.

So most of you think its showboating.? most think this is unsafe.

do you also know that alot of people think that our sport is unsafe? that we may shoot ourself when we draw our guns?

its nice to learn from this forum too that there is no written rule againts this in eiter IDPA or USPSA.

I wont intentionally do it because I now learn that alot of competitive shooters think of these as showboating and feels uncomfortable with this . But if it happens that I do it in the match Its not my intention to showboat it just comeout what I was doing in practice.

Singlestack,

I resent the fact you are specifically calling me unsafe IF is decide to catch a round while in the air. I actually started catching rounds that were hitting me, as I find it annoying, and ONLY found out it was considered showing off on this forum.

Tell me how pointing the ejection port AWAY from me and downrange and the muzzle downward about 4 O'clock is UNSAFE? If a round detonates on me, it is going away and downrange, if a round goes off in the chamber it is going into the ground.

The ONLY way for the RO to get fragged (or anyone) would if they were directly in front of me.

Agreed. The thing that is even worse IMO, is when Im slowly moving the slide back to let it roll out onto the ground and the RO rushes to catch it at the gun. Uh, I appreciate your wanting to help, but please don't.

[shane8168]

Please think of the kitteh's.

Okay, I'm years behind here, but that is funny right there!

[a matt]

Well, at least it's for a good cause.

[BillChunn]

Numerous years ago, I believe it was at Area 5, there was a lady RO who had experienced "Super Face". This was a term coined when the 38 Super was just coming into vogue. There were several out of battery detonations that had sent shrapnel out the ejection port. She had been injured by brass fragments when a round detonated during UASC. To her credit, she and her significant other continued to work matches.

During the walk through, she announced that if you flipped a round out of your gun, she would deem that unsportsmanlike conduct and DQ you under 10.6.2 "failure to comply with the reasonable directions of a Match Official".

She was consistent. She announced this to every squad, whether or not she was running the shooter, score keeping or just sitting in the shade under the tent. It didn't matter if your squad was from the host club or the Super Squad with Barnhart and Jarrett.

For that stage, NOBODY flipped brass on my squad.

BC

[bigfish]

Numerous years ago, I believe it was at Area 5, there was a lady RO who had experienced "Super Face". This was a term coined when the 38 Super was just coming into vogue. There were several out of battery detonations that had sent shrapnel out the ejection port. She had been injured by brass fragments when a round detonated during UASC. To her credit, she and her significant other continued to work matches.

During the walk through, she announced that if you flipped a round out of your gun, she would deem that unsportsmanlike conduct and DQ you under 10.6.2 "failure to comply with the reasonable directions of a Match Official".

She was consistent. She announced this to every squad, whether or not she was running the shooter, score keeping or just sitting in the shade under the tent. It didn't matter if your squad was from the host club or the Super Squad with Barnhart and Jarrett.

For that stage, NOBODY flipped brass on my squad.

BC

Could she dq you under 10.6.2? Maybe. And if you appealed the dq what would happen? Chances are you you be back shooting with in a few minutes/hours. I don't think the rule was written a RO could change procedures to there own liking.

[Sarge]

Numerous years ago, I believe it was at Area 5, there was a lady RO who had experienced "Super Face". This was a term coined when the 38 Super was just coming into vogue. There were several out of battery detonations that had sent shrapnel out the ejection port. She had been injured by brass fragments when a round detonated during UASC. To her credit, she and her significant other continued to work matches.

During the walk through, she announced that if you flipped a round out of your gun, she would deem that unsportsmanlike conduct and DQ you under 10.6.2 "failure to comply with the reasonable directions of a Match Official".

She was consistent. She announced this to every squad, whether or not she was running the shooter, score keeping or just sitting in the shade under the tent. It didn't matter if your squad was from the host club or the Super Squad with Barnhart and Jarrett.

For that stage, NOBODY flipped brass on my squad.

BC

Could she dq you under 10.6.2? Maybe. And if you appealed the dq what would happen? Chances are you you be back shooting with in a few minutes/hours. I don't think the rule was written a RO could change procedures to there own liking.

May have flown then but I don't see that flying now. What if I fell someday while running and AD'd into the ground right in front of me? Would it work for me to tell shooters "No running on my stage"?

[retarmyaviator]

Numerous years ago, I believe it was at Area 5, there was a lady RO who had experienced "Super Face". This was a term coined when the 38 Super was just coming into vogue. There were several out of battery detonations that had sent shrapnel out the ejection port. She had been injured by brass fragments when a round detonated during UASC. To her credit, she and her significant other continued to work matches.

During the walk through, she announced that if you flipped a round out of your gun, she would deem that unsportsmanlike conduct and DQ you under 10.6.2 "failure to comply with the reasonable directions of a Match Official".

She was consistent. She announced this to every squad, whether or not she was running the shooter, score keeping or just sitting in the shade under the tent. It didn't matter if your squad was from the host club or the Super Squad with Barnhart and Jarrett.

For that stage, NOBODY flipped brass on my squad.

BC

Just got to love the ROs with the "make em up as you go" rule book attitude.

[theblacknight]

It is possible to take the rabid one-uppsmanship of escalating safety do gooding to a level of unpractical redundantness(<not a real word yet).

How do some people go thru life knowing a AR's firing pin is just waiting for that unseated primer?They must loose sleep.

[latech15]

Numerous years ago, I believe it was at Area 5, there was a lady RO who had experienced "Super Face". This was a term coined when the 38 Super was just coming into vogue. There were several out of battery detonations that had sent shrapnel out the ejection port. She had been injured by brass fragments when a round detonated during UASC. To her credit, she and her significant other continued to work matches.

During the walk through, she announced that if you flipped a round out of your gun, she would deem that unsportsmanlike conduct and DQ you under 10.6.2 "failure to comply with the reasonable directions of a Match Official".

She was consistent. She announced this to every squad, whether or not she was running the shooter, score keeping or just sitting in the shade under the tent. It didn't matter if your squad was from the host club or the Super Squad with Barnhart and Jarrett.

For that stage, NOBODY flipped brass on my squad.

BC

Just got to love the ROs with the "make em up as you go" rule book attitude.

This has been discussed at length and the answer has always been that it isn't a DQ-able offense and that if the RO isn't comfortable with flipping they can not run shooters or ask that another RO run the shooter that insist on flipping. RO's that change the rule book on a whim should not be RO's anymore.

[a matt]

Agreed

[kevin c]

Over the years, I've come to change my opinion on this.

I find that it is seldom done to show off. It's just convenient, and I now do it myself on occasion. I still think there is some risk, but it seems to me to be mainly that somebody new might chase the round and lose track of the muzzle, and less the chance of a detonation, though that still is possible.

When I teach my club's safety course, now I just make note of the habit, advise of the pro's and cons, and tell the newbies to be careful.

[Panic Flinch]

I do not believe the folks who eject a round in the air and catch it are "showboating".....they are simply saving their round from becoming contaminated in the dirt, as well as the convenience of not having to bend over and look for it on the ground. Everyone I have seen do this maintains proper muzzle discipline and shows a proper clear after the 1/2 a second it took to secure the round. I'm sure some folks who try to do this are performing a task outside of their ability...and then become unsafe...there is always someone in the crowd. But "showboating".....naahh....just the shortest distance between two points. Does it look like "showboating"? Yes. Is it "showboating"? Naaah...I don't think so.

If this practice has been proven to be unsafe...it should be prohibited.

I've done it thousands of times....and yes caught every single one....wink.... BUT have stopped doing it at matches out of respect and politeness to the ROs who may have issue with it. Muzzle down range...mag out...rack the slide...round is gone forever...I won't reuse them once they hit the ground. Just my preference.

.02

[Bob DuBois]

Seen shooters injured twice using the roll and eject method. That's the way I was taught years ago but if you jerk the slide to the rear when doing this it's easy for the round to hit the ejector and go off. Usually injuring the shooter and the pistol.

Had a round go off pouring reloaded rounds into a five gallon bucket.

Won't say it could but haven't seen a round go off flipping yet.

[a matt]

I'm sure stranger things have happened, with bullets going bang.

You roll the gun on its left side so when the bullet slides out of the chamber it can slide towards the ejector. Not common but it does happen.

It's a little tuffer flipping bullets left handed so I don't do it so much anymore. It takes more effort than letting the bullet fall into my right hand.

I'm sure if I were right handed I would be flipping my round

Edited May 21, 2013 by a matt

[RammerJammer]

I just dont understand how it is so dangerous to rack the slide without pointing the ejection port toward the deck at the end of the stage but completely safe if I have a light primer strike. Are you a flipper if you do it mid stage or just during ULSC?