Ammo Catching @ match

[juan]

how about we remove the mag and fire the last shot into the berm since its so dangerous otherwise

I swear some people here work for OSHA. we can protect people from themselves.

[OpenDot]

I say we should be required to fire all ammo in all magazines on your belt and in firearm prior to ULSC, that way we are all 100% safe. No ammo - no safety hazard.

[Singlestack]

All of you "Flippers" are missing the point. None of us give a damn whether you flip or not when you are all alone. Flip until your heart's content. However, what makes you think you have the right to risk someone else's safety? Mainly the unsuspecting RO who might be leaning over to get a look in your chamber? If you must flip, at least have the courtesy to warn the RO that you are about to perform a foolish unsafe act and give him the option of standing in a place where your shrapnel won't hit him.

[Loves2Shoot]

Singlestack,

I resent the fact you are specifically calling me unsafe IF is decide to catch a round while in the air. I actually started catching rounds that were hitting me, as I find it annoying, and ONLY found out it was considered showing off on this forum.

Tell me how pointing the ejection port AWAY from me and downrange and the muzzle downward about 4 O'clock is UNSAFE? If a round detonates on me, it is going away and downrange, if a round goes off in the chamber it is going into the ground.

The ONLY way for the RO to get fragged (or anyone) would if they were directly in front of me.

[The Antichrome]

Please think of the kitteh's.

Less kittens in the world? My heart bleeds peanut butter. ;-)

In USPSA, IDPA, Pro-AM, 3-Gun, and Steel Challenge, I've never had one single RO (or SO) say a word about flipping the round out.

I just shot the 12 stages of Double Tap (13 counting a reshoot) I flipped the round out every time (caught it most of the time) and not one word, warning, or even a dirty look.

I've shot 4 'Majors' in the last month without a single protest.

[Singlestack]

Singlestack,

I resent the fact you are specifically calling me unsafe IF is decide to catch a round while in the air. I actually started catching rounds that were hitting me, as I find it annoying, and ONLY found out it was considered showing off on this forum.

Tell me how pointing the ejection port AWAY from me and downrange and the muzzle downward about 4 O'clock is UNSAFE? If a round detonates on me, it is going away and downrange, if a round goes off in the chamber it is going into the ground.

The ONLY way for the RO to get fragged (or anyone) would if they were directly in front of me.

I never said catching a round in the air is unsafe. I resent the fact that you are misquoting me.

[big_wannabe]

All of you "Flippers" are missing the point. None of us give a damn whether you flip or not when you are all alone. Flip until your heart's content. However, what makes you think you have the right to risk someone else's safety? Mainly the unsuspecting RO who might be leaning over to get a look in your chamber? If you must flip, at least have the courtesy to warn the RO that you are about to perform a foolish unsafe act and give him the option of standing in a place where your shrapnel won't hit him.

We've already established that "flipping" doesn't increase the risk of detonation and that there is nothing one can do to decrease that risk. The ROs already know that every time a gun is unloaded it might detonate so what exactly are the "flippers" going to warn them about?

[Loves2Shoot]

Singlestack,

I resent the fact you are specifically calling me unsafe IF is decide to catch a round while in the air. I actually started catching rounds that were hitting me, as I find it annoying, and ONLY found out it was considered showing off on this forum.

Tell me how pointing the ejection port AWAY from me and downrange and the muzzle downward about 4 O'clock is UNSAFE? If a round detonates on me, it is going away and downrange, if a round goes off in the chamber it is going into the ground.

The ONLY way for the RO to get fragged (or anyone) would if they were directly in front of me.

I never said catching a round in the air is unsafe. I resent the fact that you are misquoting me.

However, what makes you think you have the right to risk someone else's safety? ...If you must flip, at least have the courtesy to warn the RO that you are about to perform a foolish unsafe act

So what did you mean to say? That is what you said and I replied to.

Edited June 6, 2011 by Loves2Shoot

[juan]

lets all put on bomb suits when we unload

[Singlestack]

All of you "Flippers" are missing the point. None of us give a damn whether you flip or not when you are all alone. Flip until your heart's content. However, what makes you think you have the right to risk someone else's safety? Mainly the unsuspecting RO who might be leaning over to get a look in your chamber? If you must flip, at least have the courtesy to warn the RO that you are about to perform a foolish unsafe act and give him the option of standing in a place where your shrapnel won't hit him.

We've already established that "flipping" doesn't increase the risk of detonation and that there is nothing one can do to decrease that risk. The ROs already know that every time a gun is unloaded it might detonate so what exactly are the "flippers" going to warn them about?

"We" have not established anything. You might have but "we" have not. I have seen 2 ejector detonations. One happened to a dear friend and left shrapnel in his hand and his chest. So, how can we increase the possibility of one happening? lets see... what if we first turn the pistol on its side so gravity can pull on the extracted round. Then if it slips off of the extractor it has a better chance of the primer hitting the ejector. Next, lets do it with enough force so we insure that if the primer does indeed hit the ejector it fires. Now, lets add a RO who has his face in the area trying to look in the chamber. Boy o boy, that all sounds real safe when I put it that way, doesn't it? It might not be specifically against the rules, but if I wanted to be an ass I bet I could make a damn good case for a 10.5 DQ.

[Singlestack]

Singlestack,

I resent the fact you are specifically calling me unsafe IF is decide to catch a round while in the air. I actually started catching rounds that were hitting me, as I find it annoying, and ONLY found out it was considered showing off on this forum.

Tell me how pointing the ejection port AWAY from me and downrange and the muzzle downward about 4 O'clock is UNSAFE? If a round detonates on me, it is going away and downrange, if a round goes off in the chamber it is going into the ground.

The ONLY way for the RO to get fragged (or anyone) would if they were directly in front of me.

I never said catching a round in the air is unsafe. I resent the fact that you are misquoting me.

However, what makes you think you have the right to risk someone else's safety? ...If you must flip, at least have the courtesy to warn the RO that you are about to perform a foolish unsafe act

So what did you mean to say? That is what you said and I replied to.

Perhaps you could point out where I said anything about catching a round.

[Singlestack]

lets all put on bomb suits when we unload

Excuse me, but how does being a smartass contribute to the conversation?

[Loves2Shoot]

Singlestack,

I resent the fact you are specifically calling me unsafe IF is decide to catch a round while in the air. I actually started catching rounds that were hitting me, as I find it annoying, and ONLY found out it was considered showing off on this forum.

Tell me how pointing the ejection port AWAY from me and downrange and the muzzle downward about 4 O'clock is UNSAFE? If a round detonates on me, it is going away and downrange, if a round goes off in the chamber it is going into the ground.

The ONLY way for the RO to get fragged (or anyone) would if they were directly in front of me.

I never said catching a round in the air is unsafe. I resent the fact that you are misquoting me.

However, what makes you think you have the right to risk someone else's safety? ...If you must flip, at least have the courtesy to warn the RO that you are about to perform a foolish unsafe act

So what did you mean to say? That is what you said and I replied to.

Perhaps you could point out where I said anything about catching a round.

Ok, maybe I missed something, what is a flipper in your mind, since the the title of the thread says "Ammo Catching @ match"? The rounds all flip out if you rack the slide with any force. Not racking many guns with enough force and the round won't come out, they will get jammed up.

If you want to spout physics, you might want to mention the faster the rearward momentum, the less effect gravity has on the ejected round. Maybe that wouldn't make it sound unsafe though. I feel for you buddy getting hurt. I've never seen a round detonate from extraction, but I know they have, that is why I've put effort into making sure that any debris would be ejected in a safe direction should it happen. I've seen many guns be destroyed and understand the evil that can happen when things don't work right.

[Singlestack]

If you want to spout physics, you might want to mention the faster the rearward momentum, the less effect gravity has on the ejected round.

Are you sure you want to stick with this statement? It may have less time, but it will have the same effect no matter how fast you yank the slide.

I've never seen a round detonate from extraction, but I know they have, that is why I've put effort into making sure that any debris would be ejected in a safe direction should it happen. I've seen many guns be destroyed and understand the evil that can happen when things don't work right.

Oh, so you agree with me. You are aware it is unsafe and take precautions. hmmmm

[Loves2Shoot]

Force and effect are not equal. You "appeared" to state gravity could cause the round to slip off into the ejector because of gravity and the orientation of the pistol. This seemed to be the core argument to hypothesis.

I will stand 100% by my statement. If you don't understand, you can buy a Hot Wheels set with a loop at push the cars through it at different speeds to see for yourself. The slow moving cars will be effected by gravity to the point they will fall off the loop (per YOUR example) fast moving cars will overcome the force of gravity and complete the loop without being effected by gravity enough to fall off the loop.

I would love to hear your definition of a flipper instead of all the distractions from your original statement.

I do try to make sure my gun is always pointed in a safe direction and when ejecting live rounds, that does include the chamber, but don't get the "it is unsafe and foolish" statement you made. If your rounds do not flip (move end over end) when you extract them, I would be interested to know the "safe" way you remove a loaded round.

[bluenite]

As I have said before I don’t do it, and I don’t support it.

Some have said that they do it so that the round don’t land on the ground.

On a rock surface, maybe it is safer, I don’t know.

If some one wears a ring on the hand they use to catch with, some day they may have a bad day. I have seen people mark there cases so when they pick up there brass they know it is theirs, I think this works with live rounds as well.

Reusing live 9mm rounds from the ground is a very bad idea as some might be major 9.

There have been good points on both sides, but until it is ruled as unsafe we will just have to live put up with it.

Leonard

[Singlestack]

I will stand 100% by my statement. If you don't understand, you can buy a Hot Wheels set with a loop at push the cars through it at different speeds to see for yourself. The slow moving cars will be effected by gravity to the point they will fall off the loop (per YOUR example) fast moving cars will overcome the force of gravity and complete the loop without being effected by gravity enough to fall off the loop.

Take you Hot Wheels car and launch it off the end of a table. At the exact same time, drop one from the same height. They will both hit the floor at the same time. Hot wheels don't fly. Neither do bullets.

Force and effect are not equal. You "appeared" to state gravity could cause the round to slip off into the ejector because of gravity and the orientation of the pistol. This seemed to be the core argument to hypothesis.

I didn't say gravity would cause the round to slip off of the extractor. I said, if it did slip off the extractor and the ejection port was at 12:00, gravity could cause the round to fall to wards the ejector. How are you going to argue with that?

I do try to make sure my gun is always pointed in a safe direction and when ejecting live rounds, that does include the chamber, but don't get the "it is unsafe and foolish" statement you made. If your rounds do not flip (move end over end) when you extract them, I would be interested to know the "safe" way you remove a loaded round.

IMO, the safest way, is to turn the ejection port towards the ground and extract the round slowly and let it fall to the ground. You already said you agree with me that your method of flipping them up in the air is unsafe and you take precautions because of that. So, I don't know about you but if I knowingly do something that's unsafe and risk others by doing it, I think that's foolish. But that's just my opinion.

I'm done here

[gino_aki]

The way I answered this question in Brian's "10 Questions...about shooting" thread was like this:

7. Do you do the bullet flip on unload and show clear?

No, since the only really impressive way to do it is by catching the round in your teeth while holding the slide back so the RO can see you're clear

and I can't do that.

[big_wannabe]

Is anyone here aware of any empirical data that supports the supposition that the mechanics required to "flip" rounds in the air increases the risk of detonation?

If not, maybe that explains why there's no rule against it. I've never seen an RO complain about it.

[ima45dv8]

My oldest brother used to habitually drive without a seatbelt. He averaged 38,000+ miles a year in Atlanta traffic without a mishap. His personal record didn't make the practice safe. It only showed he was lucky and should have invested more heavily in Lottery tickets.

Whenever I hear of someone with a chamber detonation upon ejection, I ask the same things -- was it a .40, and what was the length of the cartridge?

In almost (not all, but almost) all cases it is a .40, and when it is a .40 it is almost always a long-loaded cartridge (in excess of 1.200").

(I load to 1.185 for this very reason)

In almost every case, the gun was held by a right-handed shooter and is tilted to the left at ~a 45 degree angle, placing the ejection port at the 12:00 position. Unfortunately, in a 1911 or 2011 platform that same tilt places the ejector at the 6:00 position. In many instances that isn't a problem. But if the long-loaded round hits the front edge of the ejection port (because of the longer-than-designed length), it will fail it's ejection arc. Once the front of the cartridge stops on the ejection port's leading edge the rear of the cartridge falls off of the extractor.

Why is that a problem?

The rear of the cartridge falls off of the extractor and drops into the open area of the chamber. That happens to place the rear/base of the cartridge at the 6:00 position. OH HELL! That's just where the ejector, with it's rather sharp nose, happens to be. The slightest bounce between the hands performing this action causes the round to be withdrawn into the ejector.

BANG! (they will "bounce")

I haven't had this happen to me because I gave up the practice before it went bad for me. I saw first-hand what happened to others and decided it wasn't worth the risk. I don't doubt that many people will do this Forever and have no issue with it. Good for you.

If you ever do have a problem, I hope you have the equitable mindset to come back here and warn others of the dangers.

Until then...by the rules...carry on!

[latech15]

I have seen exactly the same number or rounds detonated out of battery while trying to clear a gun as I have rounds detonated when they fall from the gun directly to the ground and hit a hard object (spike holding shooting box in place, wall base, etc) - ZERO.

I have found live rounds on the ground after "all brass has been picked up". I think that is the more dangerous issue. I have heard of people shooting all those live rounds that they found on the ground and having a 9 major round go off in a G17. If you are shooting in a place where you are 90% sure that you can a) find your live round when it hits the ground and know that it isn't going to hit something that might detonate it when it strikes it, then go ahead and drop the round. I agree that it is safer that way. I don't shoot in places like that and I am about 90% on catching my brass in the air. Oh, and the faster the slide cycles when you are ejecting the round, the more it moves the way it was designed to (as in when you are firing the gun) and the more reliable the extractor's job is done.

I can see where SOME PEOPLE would say that flipping a round is showboating. Those same people probably think that open guns are showboating too. I think that it is safer than the other way so imma do it my way.

[Loves2Shoot]

I will stand 100% by my statement. If you don't understand, you can buy a Hot Wheels set with a loop at push the cars through it at different speeds to see for yourself. The slow moving cars will be effected by gravity to the point they will fall off the loop (per YOUR example) fast moving cars will overcome the force of gravity and complete the loop without being effected by gravity enough to fall off the loop.

Take you Hot Wheels car and launch it off the end of a table. At the exact same time, drop one from the same height. They will both hit the floor at the same time. Hot wheels don't fly. Neither do bullets.

Force and effect are not equal. You "appeared" to state gravity could cause the round to slip off into the ejector because of gravity and the orientation of the pistol. This seemed to be the core argument to hypothesis.

I didn't say gravity would cause the round to slip off of the extractor. I said, if it did slip off the extractor and the ejection port was at 12:00, gravity could cause the round to fall to wards the ejector. How are you going to argue with that?

I do try to make sure my gun is always pointed in a safe direction and when ejecting live rounds, that does include the chamber, but don't get the "it is unsafe and foolish" statement you made. If your rounds do not flip (move end over end) when you extract them, I would be interested to know the "safe" way you remove a loaded round.

IMO, the safest way, is to turn the ejection port towards the ground and extract the round slowly and let it fall to the ground. You already said you agree with me that your method of flipping them up in the air is unsafe and you take precautions because of that. So, I don't know about you but if I knowingly do something that's unsafe and risk others by doing it, I think that's foolish. But that's just my opinion.

I'm done here

Your method does not work for many guns that have a firm extractor, and is directing a potential blast toward your knees and feet, since the round catching on the slide is much more likely to pull the round it into the ejector than gravity (since you asked.) HMMMM.

I'm done too.

[AlamoShooter]

I spent the morning rounding up any hat that I may ware to a shooting event so that my Monogram can sew in "Flipper" on the back of my hat.

but thin I would have to put all other very bad habits on it

Runs with loaded guns

Runs with Scissors

exceeds maximum recommended load in recipe to reach Major

Shoots at Steel targets that could ricochet

Now I know why all the ROs across the nation are so unhappy to see me when I come to their stage.

my name is Jamie Foote and I am a flipper

This post was intended to case a very small smile

Edited June 6, 2011 by AlamoShooter

[ima45dv8]

Runs with Scissors

My favorite!

[AlamoShooter]

Runs with Scissors

My favorite!

ok I have to be honest about that one , the scissors were in the sewing box when I ran with them. not like I am some kinda maniac that would run with open set of scissors