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Ammo Catching @ match


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Saw a round detonate at the "Unload and show clear" point during a USPSA match yesterday. Unmodified 1911 in .45 ACP. Shooter pulled the slide back and "BANG!" Brass fragment imbedded in his forefinger. He got eight stitches.

Did he turn the gun sideways for was it straight up and down...

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I've never personally seen anybody with a detonation that could be attributed to "flipping". Almost all my shooting friends, who are all very experienced shooters, flip and catch. I am the exception.

I help teach our intro to competition shooting class, and I recommend that beginners let the round drop. Yes, flipping and catching the round can be done safely, I will certainly grant that. I do believe though, it is something that somebody should consider only after developing good muzzle awareness. I cringe at some of the things that new shooters do that most of us avoid unconsciously, and that includes sweeping yourself or somebody else when, say, distracted by chasing that flipped round that went forward and to the right of the muzzle.

Just my perspective.

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I am likely one of the few ppl that cringe at watching shooters do the "flip and catch" routine.. sure, chances are that the round won't detonate, but really, why take a chance? I try to stay as far from the ejection port when shooters are unloading.. I figure if it goes off, I'll let them take the brunt of the flying fragmented brass. Every time you do it, you lessen the odds on it happening.. I simply ease the slide back, take the round out, and show clear.. simple, easy, and less of a chance of taking your focus off unloading, safely.

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If the round is going to detonate its going to happen in the ejection port. Whether you flip it or not won't have any effect on that so no more damage will be done flipping than if ones off when just dropping the round. Fwiw every detonation and injury I've seen was not done by a flipper but someone who was going to let it drop.

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I had a bullet flipping incident a couple sundays ago. My .40s are loaded to 1.225" for starters. I switched guns the day of the match because I noticed the front sight came loose on my match gun. I was using a P16 with a lot tighter, maybe dirtier, chamber. Racking the slide took some effort, but once it broke loose the slide would come snapping back and lauch the round out in a hurry. When I ULSC I tilted the gun to the normal angle where I'd flip one out and BANG. I have no doubt that the speed in which the slide came back was what caused the round to go off. The damage was a 1/4" wide relatively deep gash on my left index finger, which was the closest thing to the ejection port. There wasn't any debris that hit me, it was just from the blast.

I'd say slower is safer.. If you're going to flip the round, don't lauch it 10 feet into the air!

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To be honest, I didn't know that there have been so many of these detonations happening. I just started flipping rounds out this past year and I am looking right at the ejection port when the round comes out.

I don't know whether one method of ejecting a round is better than another, but for those of you who have been present when rounds detonate on extraction...would I be correct in thinking that rotating your pistol to the right and having the ejection port pointing more toward the ground would help in sending the shrapnel from a detonating round more toward the ground and away from the faces of the shooter and RO?

If true this makes me think that I would rather get shrapnel in my legs than my face. Am I wrong about this?

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  • 2 weeks later...

I had a bullet flipping incident a couple sundays ago. My .40s are loaded to 1.225" for starters. I switched guns the day of the match because I noticed the front sight came loose on my match gun. I was using a P16 with a lot tighter, maybe dirtier, chamber. Racking the slide took some effort, but once it broke loose the slide would come snapping back and lauch the round out in a hurry. When I ULSC I tilted the gun to the normal angle where I'd flip one out and BANG. I have no doubt that the speed in which the slide came back was what caused the round to go off. The damage was a 1/4" wide relatively deep gash on my left index finger, which was the closest thing to the ejection port. There wasn't any debris that hit me, it was just from the blast.

I'd say slower is safer.. If you're going to flip the round, don't lauch it 10 feet into the air!

Not being argumentative - your position is fair, just something I noted in your description. With the added force necessary to extract the loaded round, you probably flexed the extractor a bit and it didn't have a normal hold on the rim as it would have had on a not-so-tight chambering. That force holding the round is applied asymmetrically on the round as it's being pulled out of the chamber. The added effort definitely was what set the round off when it slipped - but it's a good point.

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I did witness this on a 38 Super open pistol many years ago.

After inspection, the cause was due to a few factors:

1. Multiple rack/stroke of the action. The shooter racked the action twice, both slow

2. The first rack did not eject the live round however, the cartridge partially slipped off the extractor. Thus, the subsequent rack pulled the cartridge right into the extended ejector, hitting the primer. Bang! Sadly, a piece of brass was embedded in the shooters forearm (right handed) Fortunately, a surgeon was present and removed it quickly and headed to hospital.

IMHO, if user "smartly" rack/stroke the action ONCE. The pistol is operating as it should and eject the round.

I admit, I turn my 1911 pistol, left and horizontal, downrange and rack it once. If within range, I catch but don't chase it. Due to the exact reason we discuss this on this board, I don't do this ULSC at Level II and up matches. Keep 'em all happy. :cheers:

My 92F for production has a more pronounced ejection and is quite easy to catch. (There's no ejection port, a completely cut out slide!)

Take care all, DVC

Ed

Edited by flack jacket
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can we just get one of these many flip and catch threads to be a sticky somewhere?

and then whenever an unknowing new guy starts another flip and catch thread, the mods can merge it with the already stickied thread?

But won't that merged thread take up so much server space that there will be no memory space left for the site.

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So I can get my post count up like other people seem to do because I don't care about trying to control what a shooter does as long as the gun stays pointing downrange. As an RO I am not there to play babysitter to someone who may have fired thousands of more rounds than I have and wants to flip and catch his ammo. If a round detonates I hope my position behind their shoulder keeps me from being injured more than the hot brass that I seem to attract as I am trying to watch the gun.

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Some think it OK. Others think it unsafe.

So... my question.

If someone is flipping a stick/hatchet/rock/flipping a round out of their pistol around you and it accidentley flies over (or blows up) and pops you in the face.... Do you smack them one on the nose..or not?

Edited by Merlin Orr
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As an RO i see that done all the time& it doesnt bother me.As long as the shooter pulls back the slide and shows clear.

As a shooter i started doung the smae thing.But i pull back the slide and wait for the RO's comand after i catch the round.

To each his own.

Laz

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Some think it OK. Others think it unsafe.

So... my question.

If someone is flipping a stick/hatchet/rock/flipping a round out of their pistol around you and it accidentley flies over (or blows up) and pops you in the face.... Do you smack them one on the nose..or not?

Not if you want to shoot at that range anymore.

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Some think it OK. Others think it unsafe.

So... my question.

If someone is flipping a stick/hatchet/rock/flipping a round out of their pistol around you and it accidentley flies over (or blows up) and pops you in the face.... Do you smack them one on the nose..or not?

Not if you want to shoot at that range anymore.

LOL!!! I'd say yes! "You *&%%$%$#$^% Jack Wagon!!!"

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As John "The Tooz" Matuzak once said, "What most of these people need is a good slap upside the head."

Then, in a somewhat softer voice, "What I don't need is anymore lawsuits."

Dispensing your own justice is a hard row to hoe. :roflol:

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I have read this thread with interest. My question is does anyone have any information related to a detonation by someone unloading their carry or service firearm at home. Not everyone stores their carry or duty firearm with a chambered round and a cocked action. Another way to ask this is has anyone witnessed an unload detonation with factory or carry ammunition?

Thanks

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I used to think that flipping and catching the round in the air is showboating.

I used to unload my gun w/ my weak hand wrapped around the slide, palm covering the ejection port, tilt the gun to the right (Im right handed), rack the slide w/ just enough force to eject the round and catch it w/ my palm. This was taught to me by my instructor long time ago, so I had been at it for as long a time.

But I witnessed a detonation twice in a recent past while I RO'd in our clubshoot, both clearing a jam w/ bulged brass stuck in the chamber, whacked the backstrap of the grip forcefully whith the strong hand while the weak hand firmly holding the slide. One was w/ the palm covering the ejection port, got a deep wound in the palm. The second one was holding on the rear serration of the slide and was clear of the ejection port, but the gun was close to his abdomen to have leverage, got brass shrapnells in the chest and abdomen area, had to rush to a hospital for treatment and remove the imbedded brass.

After the second incident, I decided to change my system to flip and catch. If the round flew out of reach, I dont chase it. I do it w/ the gun well in front of me more than a foot from abdoment area. In this position, in my opinion/estimate, the RO at my back and a bit in my right side, and me are safe if the round detonates. In my observation and experience, this is the safest I could get. I did not opt for tilting the gun to its side so the port faces the ground and eject the round to the ground as I dont see the chamber area if the round really left it. Although I open the port the second time to see the chamber if clear, I still prefer to see the round leave the chamber as I eject it and see nothing enter into it as I close the slide. Thats for my peace of mind.

I also replaced my extended ejector w/ a short one to have a wider (not pointed) end to hit the rear of the round.

Maybe some do it for show, some for convenience, some for safety reasons, or a combination of these. But me thinks its never for unsafe reasons. It could become unsafe due to ignorance but not intentionally done.

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...some for safety reasons...

Flawed logic there. Changing from one method to one that is less likely to injure your hand is reasonable. To change to another method that DOES have some safety concerns...more like rationalization.

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I have read this thread with interest. My question is does anyone have any information related to a detonation by someone unloading their carry or service firearm at home. Not everyone stores their carry or duty firearm with a chambered round and a cocked action. Another way to ask this is has anyone witnessed an unload detonation with factory or carry ammunition?

Thanks

Only once in person. Have examined the case from one, case and gun in another, both from local shooters I know. Have examined (professionally) three others.

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