How narrow is "require" ... "from a single view or locatio

[Skydiver]

(It's funny that Spanky posted that question about how broad is "from a single view or location". This question is a complement to that which centers around required shots.)

As we are putting together our packet of stage designs to submit to NROI for approval for our Level II match an interesting stage design came along. It had 4 appearing paper targets that disappeared at the end of their motion. Additionally, there were 3 steel targets used to trigger the appearance of the targets. Everything was shot from a single shooting box. As originally submitted by the designer, he wanted 2 rounds each paper target. We modified the design to only require 1 round per paper target so as to comply with a short course "must not require more than 8 rounds to complete and no more than 2 shooting locations" (1.2.1.1)

The designer believes that the stage is legal as medium course and satisfies "must not require more than 8 scoring hits from any single location or view" (1.2.1.2) with the reasoning that since they are disappearing targets and incur no penalty misses, then only 3 shots on steel are required, and the others 8 on paper not required. Do other people agree that is a valid argument?

Irregardless whether the other 8 shots are considered to be required or not, the last clause of 1.2.1.2 still makes it an illegal medium course because all targets can be shot from a single view or location.

Another way to salvage the stage as originally designed is to call this a speed shoot and require a mandatory reload before the last shot fired. Of course, the question the comes up: can this stage also be a legal speed shoot without the mandatory reload? Assuming that people agree that only 3 shots on steel are required, then this statement "No more than 8 rounds may be required without a mandatory reload" (1.2.2.3) does not have to be satisfied.

As I promised folks, I'll let people know where I stand on this. In my opinion, those 8 shots are required. I base that on logic that if I fail to activate the targets, then I'll get 8 penalty misses (and 4 FTE's) as per 9.9.3.

[Nik Habicht]

(It's funny that Spanky posted that question about how broad is "from a single view or location". This question is a complement to that which centers around required shots.)

As we are putting together our packet of stage designs to submit to NROI for approval for our Level II match an interesting stage design came along. It had 4 appearing paper targets that disappeared at the end of their motion. Additionally, there were 3 steel targets used to trigger the appearance of the targets. Everything was shot from a single shooting box. As originally submitted by the designer, he wanted 2 rounds each paper target. We modified the design to only require 1 round per paper target so as to comply with a short course "must not require more than 8 rounds to complete and no more than 2 shooting locations" (1.2.1.1)

The designer believes that the stage is legal as medium course and satisfies "must not require more than 8 scoring hits from any single location or view" (1.2.1.2) with the reasoning that since they are disappearing targets and incur no penalty misses, then only 3 shots on steel are required, and the others 8 on paper not required. Do other people agree that is a valid argument?

Irregardless whether the other 8 shots are considered to be required or not, the last clause of 1.2.1.2 still makes it an illegal medium course because all targets can be shot from a single view or location.

Another way to salvage the stage as originally designed is to call this a speed shoot and require a mandatory reload before the last shot fired. Of course, the question the comes up: can this stage also be a legal speed shoot without the mandatory reload? Assuming that people agree that only 3 shots on steel are required, then this statement "No more than 8 rounds may be required without a mandatory reload" (1.2.2.3) does not have to be satisfied.

As I promised folks, I'll let people know where I stand on this. In my opinion, those 8 shots are required. I base that on logic that if I fail to activate the targets, then I'll get 8 penalty misses (and 4 FTE's) as per 9.9.3.

I think, depending on the timing of the movers, and the difficulty of getting hits on them, it is a more interesting stage with only 1 hit per target. Do you hose the steel and simply stop? Do you engage all targets? Split the difference? What will result in the highest hit factor?

With two hits per paper, there's probably no situation where leaving points on the board is acceptable...

[Schutzenmeister]

Clearly, I haven't seen a drawing of the proposed CoF. However, I see little reason a shooter couldn't draw, shoot the 3 Poppers, and ULASC ... It becomes a mathematical and gaming question as to whether or not it's even worth the effort to engage the disappearing targets once activated. I've know many very good shooters that would simply blow them off if they could get a really high HF by just shooting the 3 Poppers.

Additionally, assume the following: Under the suggested Speed Shoot and "must perform a reload prior to the last round" suppose the shooter has a jam after the Poppers and before the turners ... What then? All his targets have disappeared and he has nothing to legitimately shoot at. Are you then going to penalize him for not firing a shot after the reload? Fire a shot ... at what? He has no legitimate target at which to fire. Do we then argue a DQ for USGH or an AD because there was no legitimate target available? (I think either would be silly, BTW.)

I respectfully question the wisdom of the proposed CoF as stated.

[Skydiver]

Here's what the stage looks like:

I feel that we made the best choice to make it only one round per paper target because it makes the stage much more interesting.

I'm curious though if people would consider this a legal speed shoot if it was best 2 hits on paper, and not have a mandatory reload.

[Flexmoney]

I don't read it that narrowly, nor do I believe that was how it was written into the rule book.

11 rounds...not legal.