Hard Cast Lead -vs- Soft Cast

[JayTray]

Does anybody have any experience with reloading "softer" lead cast bullets. Softer cast bullets(BHN 14)

I found a supplier that claims for .38 and .45 ACP he has a recipe that offers "excellent accuracy and no visible leading"

He tested with .45 @ 900+ fps and had no issues what so ever.

$55 per 1000 is attractive but is it ballistically a good deal?

Thanks!

JT

[Solvability]

Leading has a lot of variables.

Pressure - flame temp - fit to barrel. You really need to try them and see how they work for you. 900fps is pretty standard for lead without a gas check. Some barrels work great with lead and some do not - lead will polish a barrel and leading may stop as the round count goes up.

There is a scientific method to figure hardness required that balances hardness to pressure - but what the heck try it.

Too hard can also cause leading.

[leas327]

Bullet fit and is king when it comes to preventing leading in those calibers. I use scrap lead that tests at 10 BHN and shoot a 200 gr 45 bullet at 1020 fps and don't have problems with leading. I slugged the bore of my barrel and the largest measurment was .451. I sized my bullets to .452.

With an auto you want the bullet to be .001/.002 larger that the largest bore diameter.

With a revolver slug the barrel and measure for the largest dia. take the slug and see if it will pass through all the throats in the cylinder. Ideally you want the slug to push through with a very slight resistance. If it will do that it is good. If you have to force it that is not good because the cylinder will size the bullet undersize before going down the bore. This will cause leading and tumbling bullets. If the slug will fall through this is also not so good as the bullet will have and an opportunity to slightly yaw as it passes through the cylinder. This can a number of problems. Excessive leading of the forcing cone area, lead spitting, decreased accuracy from the bullet not being square and concentric as it leaves the bore. The general rule is you want your bullet .001 larger than the cylinder throats, and the cylinder throats .001 larger than the largest diameter of the bore. Some of the cylinder throats will be tighter than others. All of my newer smith revolvers are good. I guess some of the 1970's model 25's had a problem with undersize cylinder throats. I have also heard of some ruger single actions having this problem.

Excessive leading means different things to different people. I shoot between 700-1000 rounds between cleaning on my autos. This is mostly to clean powder residue out of the action. A lot of times I don't bother cleaning the bore. When I do I may see a couple of flecks of lead on a patch. If you look down the bore before I clean it it will look like it is filled with crud. The first patch will come out black. Some people think that is lead, but it isn't. That is bullet lube. Leading is silver. I can't remember the last time I cleaned my 627. I usually just spray the outside of the gun with rem-oil and wipe off the crud with a rag. It gives the cylinder that well earned two tone look.

Remember 45 auto and 38 special were designed when pistol bullets were lead and that was about it.

Edited May 13, 2011 by leas327

[JayTray]

Good info. Thank you.

If I understand... soft doesnt = bad.

What the heck for $55 per K, if they arent great... they should be OK for practice.

[Shadowrider]

Bullet fit and is king when it comes to preventing leading in those calibers. I use scrap lead that tests at 10 BHN and shoot a 200 gr 45 bullet at 1020 fps and don't have problems with leading. I slugged the bore of my barrel and the largest measurment was .451. I sized my bullets to .452.

With an auto you want the bullet to be .001/.002 larger that the largest bore diameter.

With a revolver slug the barrel and measure for the largest dia. take the slug and see if it will pass through all the throats in the cylinder. Ideally you want the slug to push through with a very slight resistance. If it will do that it is good. If you have to force it that is not good because the cylinder will size the bullet undersize before going down the bore. This will cause leading and tumbling bullets. If the slug will fall through this is also not so good as the bullet will have and an opportunity to slightly yaw as it passes through the cylinder. This can a number of problems. Excessive leading of the forcing cone area, lead spitting, decreased accuracy from the bullet not being square and concentric as it leaves the bore. The general rule is you want your bullet .001 larger than the cylinder throats, and the cylinder throats .001 larger than the largest diameter of the bore. Some of the cylinder throats will be tighter than others. All of my newer smith revolvers are good. I guess some of the 1970's model 25's had a problem with undersize cylinder throats. I have also heard of some ruger single actions having this problem.

Excessive leading means different things to different people. I shoot between 700-1000 rounds between cleaning on my autos. This is mostly to clean powder residue out of the action. A lot of times I don't bother cleaning the bore. When I do I may see a couple of flecks of lead on a patch. If you look down the bore before I clean it it will look like it is filled with crud. The first patch will come out black. Some people think that is lead, but it isn't. That is bullet lube. Leading is silver. I can't remember the last time I cleaned my 627. I usually just spray the outside of the gun with rem-oil and wipe off the crud with a rag. It gives the cylinder that well earned two tone look.

Remember 45 auto and 38 special were designed when pistol bullets were lead and that was about it.

This post is spot on.

I'll 2nd it in stating that most hardcast pistol bullets are actually hard enough for cast bullet rifle velocities. 14 BHN is plenty hard enough for almost all handgun velocities.

Edited May 13, 2011 by Shadowrider

[BBBB]

I think the determining factor for optimal lead bullet hardness is really pressure more than velocity. It is true that in a given cartridge higher velocity means higher pressure, but it's the pressure that deforms the bullet.

Here is a link to one article that discusses this along with a formula -- http://www.lasc.us/Brennan_6-6-3_CastHandgun.htm

The 45ACP and 38 special are lower pressure cartridges than say 40SW or even 9mm so they work fine (and sometimes better) with a softer bullet.

To quote the article:

" Within the range of alloy hardness used for typical as-cast or heat treated bullets (from 5-30 BHN), yield strength is approximated by the BHN multiplied by 480. This means that a soft alloy of 8 BHN, such as factory swaged lead bullets will stand up to about 15,000 CUP (8 x 480 x 4=15,360), and an alloy of 12 BHN will stand up to about 23,000 CUP. This corresponds to the pressures generated by 4-6 grains of fast burning pistol powders such as Bullseye, 231, Red Dot, Green Dot or 452AA, which are all well suited for the .44 Special."

Based on this and my personal experience 14 BHN is fine for either 38special and 45 ACP. As mentioned by others bullet fit is key.