Julien Boit Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 Hi all, Do you guys uses small bases dies for reloading the 223 for your AR15 ? I recently had trouble with my newest rifle. It seems to come from the cases which would be not correctly resized, despite they went through a total resizing with LEE dies and went Ok with the Dillon gauge. I did not have the same problem with brand new cases from Remington. The faulty cases are HP (Hirtenberger) and were fired through a Sig 552 and HK G36, maybe in full auto. I heard about Dillon making some as well as RCBS, right ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 With brass outof full-auto guns I'd be more worried about case stretch causing overly long cases. And also leading to case separations after a few loadings. Measure o.a.l. I've never used small base dies and never needed them, so I can't speak to their usefulness or costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 I need to use small base dies for my Accuracy Speaks chambered ARs which have tight chambers. But you certainly don't need them for a stock chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Boit Posted April 7, 2004 Author Share Posted April 7, 2004 I believe the chamber is not "stock". The rifle is called BR20 by the maker (SDI), BR stands for Bench Rest. This is a match type AR with stainless 1/8 bull barrel, and all the bells and whistles (RRA match trigger, free floating handguard, PSG1 style grip...) . The chamber had been measured by a gunsmith and it's 5/100 mm bigger than the smaller CIP measurements. So it's more on "match chambering" side. OTOH I tried to load the same rounds in my DPMS M4 which is larger and sometimes the same problem appear : The case is not totally chambered and stuck halfway. Somebody told me to trim a bit my resizing die, I've done this before on pistol cartridge dies but would it work for a necked case ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBF Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Julien, I am not sure trimming the die would be a good idea. Headspace would be affected. Your chamber is larger than the small side in which dimension ? If diameter wise, you could go with a small base die. Or Different brass. I am not familiar with the brass you mention, but if the problem resolves with other brass, it could very likely be a brass related problem. I have never used a small base die. Travis F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 I have had a similar problem with reloads in my Bushmaster barrel. I switched to SB dies, and the problem persists. It is not so much a problem of the case not going all the way into the chamber. But if I chamber a live round and don't shoot it, it is very difficult to pull the charging handle back and extract the live round from the chamber. It can be a pain at the end of a stage to unload and show clear at times. I have tried loading once-fired brass and older, Fired from my chamber and others. I have made sure to trim the cases so they are not too long. Maybe it's the die setting at the shoulder. But for the time being, I am just shooting factory ammo. That doesn't seem to have any problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Sounds like a tight throat to me. I had a Krieger "match" chambered barrel and it's throat was next to nothing. Everything would "stick" in the darn thing. All my loads showed pressure signs. I had JP run his reamer into the darn thing and bump the throat out to his specs and then it was great!! It was a very finky B#^$tch befor, now it shoots most everything well. BTW the most "sticky" ammo was WW 193 ball, Q3131 and Q3131A. KURTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacMan Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Education please - I'm new to reloading so have to ask this stupid question - What is the difference between std 223 dies set and small base dies set? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 KURTM - Sounds like a good place to start. But my barrel has no problems with factory ammo. If it was a tight throat, I would think the factory ammo would show problems as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 PACMAN - Most dies are flared out a little at the bottom of the die to help the case enter easier. The case is not sized in this area, but it is at the base of the case where the brass is thickest and shouldn't expand. SB dies size a little farther down the case. Maybe someone can explain it a little better though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacMan Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Thanks Garrett, I think I got the picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Boit Posted April 9, 2004 Author Share Posted April 9, 2004 In fact I think my question was incorrect. The small base will resize the case lower than a regular die, what I need in fact would be an Undersized die such as what EGW does for handgun cases. In my upper, the cases are stuck about halway and they shows marks about an inch under the mouth of the case, not at its base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Boit Posted May 4, 2004 Author Share Posted May 4, 2004 Hi all, I'm back, still stucked with that damned thing. I made some experiments : I took the upper out of the lower and hand chambered Factory ammos. Everything is ok so far, I did the same thing with new brass (RP) and everything is fine too. I did it again (oups ) with resized cases from different makers and it's also fine. When I try to do the same with the upperback on the lower, here comes the trouble. If I handload the rifle the bolt will lock, if I do it from the mag, it seems that the bolt head does not catch properly the bottom of the case and it get stucked. What could that be ? It starts to piss me off, I want to shoot factory ammos , not manually but in repetition, it's not a bolt rifle, it's an AR ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Julien: Does the back of your chamber have a champher to it, or is it square sharp? I noticed all the factory barrels I have are nicely rounded in this area. Yours might be cut square and never beveled after final reaming and extention installaton. Are the marks on the case kind of a scrape and then a sharp half moon shape crease in the case?? Garrett: I think I would also check the neck area of that Bushy barrel. Maybe a bit tight there. Does a bullet easily drop into a fired case? Checking the neck length might pay off also. I'm shooting in the dark but I would bet on throat or neck. Going to Mississippi 3-gun?? KURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Kurt, Should a bullet be able to drop into a fired case? I would think that would be a bit loose. I'll be in Chicago the day before the MS 3-gun. Makes for a bit of a drive. I might still be able to swing it, though. I'll have to see when we get closer, if it hasn't sold out by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Garrett: Yes it should be able to fit into a fired case with not too much problem. If it doesn't the neck is under size for what we do, Real tight bench rest chambers won't even chamber standard brass, and for those you end up neck turning to true the case and gain clearance! I don't think MS will be full but you might give them a shout! KURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Boit Posted May 6, 2004 Author Share Posted May 6, 2004 Kurt: Yes it does have a chamfer . The case shows scratches on the right side. I'll try to see how it does with my M4 bolt in this upper. I started thinking about a too powerful ejector spring . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Kurt, A bullet will not drop into the neck of a fired case from my barrel. It can be pushed in without too much effort though. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Julien, Is your Lee sizing die bottomed out on the shellplate when the handle on your press is all the way down? I have a Colt Hbar that does what yours does with reloads. I think what's jamming on mine is the neck of the cartridge. If my die doesn't totally bottom out on the shellplate, all my reloads stick in the chamber (even before I fire them). The next time I set up for 223, I'm going to grind down the bottom of the die about .010-.020" to see if I can set the neck of the case back just a bit farther. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srf Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 I started loading .223 with Lee dies and had consistently poor feeding. I switched to RCBS small base dies: POOF perfect feeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now