Got my first DQ today

[Robert King]

I stepped up to the bench, locked the bolt back on my rifle, inserted a mag, pressed the bolt release and then BANG! There is zero chance I pulled the trigger, as I use a BAD Lever and actuate it with my trigger finger. I was running a PWS lower with a Timney drop in trigger. The upper is a Firebird I just picked up on the forum. It was pretty dirty when I got it, so I field stripped and cleaned the BCG two days ago. Fired about 40 test rounds yesterday and then wiped down the BCG and lubed it. I am about to go down and open up the rifle and take a look for any obvious problems.

Any suggestions on what specifically to look for? Any tests I can perform? After I take it apart, I am going to try loading a mag and closing the bolt several times to see if it happens again. I can shoot at the homestead, so I have a safe place to do the testing.

There was a lot of brass around, so I am not 100% sure the one I checked was mine, but I think it is. I saw no issued with the brass or primer and the primer was hit.

Kind of a bummer. I always knew that if I shot enough matches I would probably slip up and get a DQ, as it can happen to anyone. But I always thought it would be me and not an equipment issue. This is my first ND in addition to my first DQ. I call it an ND, because I don't think there is such a thing as an AD. If the gun is broken, I should have known it and it is likely it is me that broke it somehow, although I can't figure out how, yet.

[Robert King]

One other thing. After it fired, I removed the mag and locked back the bolt. When I did this, nothing ejected, so when it fired, it did not load the next round. Probably not related but more data is always good.

[RH45]

It sounds like a slam-fire. It happens.

[GorillaTactical]

I've had this happen before @ the range...from what I understand, it can be caused by a soft primer. Even if u had your finger depressing the trigger when the bolt closed, the trigger would still have to have reset before the round went off...

So, what ammo were you running? Factory, Reloads?

Edited April 30, 2011 by GorillaTactical

[Robert King]

Factory Hornady 55gr FMJBT

[cardiackid]

Yeah, definitely sounds like a slam fire on a light primer. With the free floating firing pin in an AR, it will put a very slight dimple on the primer when chambering a round. I highly doubt the firing pin is out of spec (if anything it would be worn after thousands of rounds and not long to begin with). If it's a reload, chances are it's a light primer, a primer that was not fully seated or had slightly backed out, or a combination.

[Robert King]

I had probably chambered that round before, doing mag testing. So that might have helped set it off

[kurtm]

Definit slam fire. Had it happen a few times so I went with a Titanium firing pin. On an other note you should not have been DQed for it. I once pointed out that the safety was still on and my finger was straight and the R.O. had seen that was the case. That is why when I drop the bolt on an AR anymore I make damn sure it is pointed at a good solid berm!!!

[Robert King]

I did a lot of reading on the DQ when I got home and it looks to me like the majority think the rules state it is a DQ. In my case, the round went over the berm into the big hill, but over the berm for sure. So, in my case, it was a DQ for sure. The RO did not have to DQ me, as I knew I was done for the day myself.

[kurtm]

Yeah...over the hedge and that is it no matter what. I bet in the future, you...like me....will make a definite effort to make sure it is at a berm. For most it is treated like a "detonation" while unloading...non D.Q. unless it is directed at Sky Lab. Sorry to hear of the trip to D.Q.!!!

Hey any of you Idaho boys ever run into a guy named Dallas Burkhalter? His family used to run the Lumber Mill out on Warm Springs Avenue tward Lucky Peak, and the Quarter Circle HH ranch. He was an amigo in my youth, and a "fluids lab" partner! Also any of the Travers Brothers, Jim and Dale.....Just a shot in the dark, cause they used to shoot way back when! Kurt Miller

Edited May 1, 2011 by kurtm

[dchang0]

Actually, you should consider this an AD and not an ND, as it was an honest ammo failure. Yes, one could argue that you were negligent in the upkeep/maintenance/tuning of your equipment, but I don't buy that in this case. You can't possibly test every round you purchase to see if its primer is too soft WITHOUT firing the round in the process (or dismantling the primer to measure the tensile strength of the cup).

The best possible argument that it was an ND is that you could've chosen to run a rifle that doesn't have a floating firing pin, but how many such rifles are effective for 3-gunning?

Let yourself off the hook, bro. You did the best you could do. Some things are simply out of our control.

Edited May 6, 2011 by dchang0

[diversmith]

Actually, you should consider this an AD and not an ND, as it was an honest ammo failure. Yes, one could argue that you were negligent in the upkeep/maintenance/tuning of your equipment, but I don't buy that in this case. You can't possibly test every round you purchase to see if its primer is too soft WITHOUT firing the round in the process (or dismantling the primer to measure the tensile strength of the cup).

The best possible argument that it was an ND is that you could've chosen to run a rifle that doesn't have a floating firing pin, but how many such rifles are effective for 3-gunning?

Let yourself off the hook, bro. You did the best you could do. Some things are simply out of our control.

Yup...big difference between and AD & ND....BUUUUUT there is also a big big difference in where it was pointing...always best to point it at a berm

[Miker]

Actually, you should consider this an AD and not an ND, as it was an honest ammo failure. Yes, one could argue that you were negligent in the upkeep/maintenance/tuning of your equipment, but I don't buy that in this case. You can't possibly test every round you purchase to see if its primer is too soft WITHOUT firing the round in the process (or dismantling the primer to measure the tensile strength of the cup).

The best possible argument that it was an ND is that you could've chosen to run a rifle that doesn't have a floating firing pin, but how many such rifles are effective for 3-gunning?

Let yourself off the hook, bro. You did the best you could do. Some things are simply out of our control.

Yup...big difference between and AD & ND....BUUUUUT there is also a big big difference in where it was pointing...always best to point it at a berm

This is interesting topic to me as I like to chamber a roung in my AR's with bolt open and release the bolt with my BAD lever....never thought about slam fire I always thought slam fire happened while firing the rifle caused by weak spring or sear problem I will be extra carful in the future. Also you say in this case if round had went into the berm it shouldn't have been a DQ is this a rule or is it left up to the RO's discretion?

[Charles Bond]

Actually, you should consider this an AD and not an ND, as it was an honest ammo failure. Yes, one could argue that you were negligent in the upkeep/maintenance/tuning of your equipment, but I don't buy that in this case. You can't possibly test every round you purchase to see if its primer is too soft WITHOUT firing the round in the process (or dismantling the primer to measure the tensile strength of the cup).

The best possible argument that it was an ND is that you could've chosen to run a rifle that doesn't have a floating firing pin, but how many such rifles are effective for 3-gunning?

Let yourself off the hook, bro. You did the best you could do. Some things are simply out of our control.

Yup...big difference between and AD & ND....BUUUUUT there is also a big big difference in where it was pointing...always best to point it at a berm

This is interesting topic to me as I like to chamber a roung in my AR's with bolt open and release the bolt with my BAD lever....never thought about slam fire I always thought slam fire happened while firing the rifle caused by weak spring or sear problem I will be extra carful in the future. Also you say in this case if round had went into the berm it shouldn't have been a DQ is this a rule or is it left up to the RO's discretion?

He is talking about USPSA equipment failure rules......you know those rules that everyone tells you which are not necessary and too long and too complete and would better define "safety" if at least the safety rules were used in non USPSA matches.

[mildot1]

I've seen more than a few slam fires shooting NRA high power,either off hand or slow prone. I beleive the consensus was they were never designed to be loaded that way.

The act of "stripping the round" from the mag slows the bolt enough that it never happens, while laying one in and letting the bolt fly can.

Just a thought

Mildot

[Tom D.]

That's correct mil-dot. Single rounds in US military stlyle gas guns should be loaded from the magazine. I experienced a slam fire with an issue M14 & ammo. Wrecked the rifle & scared the heck out of me. When I started Hi-power comp & started reloading for gas guns, I uniformed primer pockets & checked seating depth of EVERY primer to insure it was below flush. Kuhnhausen covers this in his gas gun book, too. As with my early experience, a slam fire is possible with factory loaded ammo.

[strangedays]

I have never had a slam fire with my ARs and I shoot lots of round in a given year. I have seen it happen many times though without a single finger being put near the trigger. Most of the time its a round that is out of spec and left the line with a high primer and it is shocking as hell when one goes off like that but if I was the RO I would have made you take the gun point it once again down range and load another round to see if it was a one time issue or if you were safe to continue the match. That is why there are rules on keeping the gun pointed down range at all times, in the event something like this happens. The only other issue I have seen is bad headspace with a new barrel and it slamms the fireing pin into the round wrong causing a slam fire. Good luck in the future and hope this is the last time you have to deal with this. Take care and good shooting.