IPSC Shotgun...Buckshot Rule clarification

[7.62mm]

Our club just participated in a Ukraniane Postal Match. One of the stages was CLASSIFIER INTERNATIONAL MARATHON - STAGE: ZVV-01

Scoring: Comstock

Targets: 2 Classic Popper СP1-СP2, 6 A4 papers Т1-Т6

Possible Points: 70

Minimum rounds: 8

Start: On audible signal

Stop: Last shot

Penalties: As per current edition IPSC rules

Ammunition type: Buckshot (limited to a maximum of 9 pellets per cartridge)

What I would like to know, is could a competitor shoot only once at an array of 2 A4 paper targets, side by side, with only 1 round of Buckshot, get scoring hits on both targets, and not incur any penalties. The competitor would only have fired 7 rounds total for the stage, where a minimum of 8 rounds was specified in the stage briefing.

What if any wold the penalties be. Personally, I think it should be take the 2 best scoring hits from one of the targets, assess the other target as 2 Misses, and a procedural.

Thanks for you time

IPSC_MARATHON_SHOTGUN_CLASSIFIER_ZVV-01.pdf

Edited April 18, 2011 by 7.62mm

[Neil Beverley]

No penalty. It's legitimate to score hits on 2 separate targets from a single shot. The relevant IPSC rules are posted below (9.5.1.1 and 9.5.6.1. Rule 9.5.6 will not apply in this case and is only included for completeness).

Please note that you actually have to hit both targets to avoid the FTE penalty. If you try for it and miss one of the targets then you get both the misses and the FTE penalty. The proof of the pudding (engaging both with one shot) is in the hits.

9.5.1.1 If two or more targets receive scoring hits as a result of a single shot they will both, or all, be scored normally. See Rule 9.5.6.

9.5.6 A competitor who fails to engage the front of each scoring target in a course of fire with at least one round will incur one procedural penalty per target for failure to engage the target, as well as appropriate penalties for misses (see Rule 10.2.7).

9.5.6.1 A competitor will not incur failure to engage penalties where two or more targets receive scoring hits as a result of a single shot. See Rule 9.5.1. If a competitor fires less shots at a target array than the number of targets in that array, and one or more target(s) does/do not receive scoring hits then failure to engage penalties and misses will apply as appropriate.

[7.62mm]

Thanks for the reply Neil!

So I wonder why we include a Minimum # of rounds in a Stage Briefing?

And I guess to top this sort of thing, just separate the targets more, or add a no shoot in between.

[Neil Beverley]

Shotgun varies from HG and rifle in that in Rule 3.2.1, the rule that discusses minimum information in a written briefing, it states:

"

Minimum number ofrounds (stated for guidance only):"

This acknowledges that on occasions competitors could complete the C of F without firing the supposed minimum rounds based on the number of targets/hits required. Hence "for guidance only".

The rules are recognizing that you can score 2 targets with one shot.

If this situation presents itself due to an oversight in the stage build then, IMO, it's poor design.

However, some stage designers might choose to tempt people with the double but if clever should not make it too easy.

Edited April 18, 2011 by Neil Beverley

[7.62mm]

Yes, I could see now where you could set up a pair of targets, say separated by 4 " or 3" to, like you say, tempt a competitor. But, it would be my intuition to shoot at them both, as it takes too much time to look decisively at a target to see if there are hits or not.

I hadn't noticed the "Minimum number of rounds (stated for guidance only):" in the Rule book, I guess I should go through the Shotgun rule Book once or twice more!

We are having a Shotgun Match in May at EESA, I will be sure to post vids for you, just so you know we Canadians are doing our part to support IPSC Shotgun.

Thanks again Neil

[stormbringer]

Thanks from me Neil.............as it was I who was tempted.

It would have been even better if I were to have WON THE DAMNED STAGE!!

[7.62mm]

LOL.....

Ok, while we are on a roll here, IPSC Rule Standard Manual Division, you are allowed 8+1, for a total of 9 rounds at the start signal. So, say on a Condition 2 Start, Magazine Loaded, chamber empty.

Would it be kosher to load magazine to capacity, and drop a round into the receiver, with the action OPEN.......basically one sitting on the shell lifter, and no round in the chamber!

[ChuckS]

Would it be kosher to load magazine to capacity, and drop a round into the receiver, with the action OPEN.......basically one sitting on the shell lifter, and no round in the chamber!

No, read 8.1.1.2

[Neil Beverley]

Not only does 8.1.1.2 stipulate that the action will be closed but the divisional tables also restrict Option 2 starts to 8 rounds. See below:

9.

Capacity restrictions for initial load prior to the start signal

Max. of 9 rounds loaded

Max. of 8 in the case of Rule 8.1.1.2