M&P strange spread while shooting reloaded ammo

[Frunta_sti]

Hi,

first of all I apologize if my explanation seems unclear (English is not native to me).

I have been reloading for well over 10 years, but recently I come up to problem that makes no sense to me.

My friend reloaded an ammo for his M&P 9, he used one time shot brass, 115 grs. Raineer Ballistic bullets, CCI primers and Clays Hodgon powder.

On Hodgon page they say to use the "lead" data (due to the softness of the bullet). So, for 115 bullet weight it should be

115 GR. LRN Hodgdon Clays .356" 1.100" 3.0 954 25,300 CUP 3.4 1039 31,000 CUP

Well, after weeks, he went all the way from 3,7 to 4,4 and the spread at 25 meters was nowhere near the factory ammo (out of 5 shots, benchrest) still at least two flyers 30cm off (at least). With the powder load going up, still not much of an improvement.

Unfortunately, last 10 years I only reload .40S&W and only with Accurate powders (in Europe, some powders are not as well known as here).

My suggestions were- too much crimping, bullets with not right diameter, ... but still- since we shot it all benchrested, and there was no remarkable improvement (if you miss a paper target at 25 meters, while shooting benchrest- something is wrong).

Can anybody help out with some constructive advice?

PS: factory ammo shoots a reasonable spread.

Thanks a lot.

F

[BillGarlandJr]

Clays is not the best powder for 9mm. Especially 115gr plated bullets. My experience with them using fast powders like Clays is they skid on down the barrel a ways before the rifling grabs the bullet and imparts any kind of spin on it. This obviously has an ill effect on accuracy. Your friend needs to try a slower powder if it is his intent to stick with the 115gr plated bullets. I have had some luck with Hodgdon's Universal Clays and lighter bullets. If your friend can get his hands on some or even a comparable powder it might help things out.

[Hi-Power Jack]

spread at 25 meters was nowhere near the factory ammo (out of 5 shots, benchrest) still at least two flyers 30cm off (at least). With the powder load going up, still not much of an improvement.

PS: factory ammo shoots a reasonable spread.

I'd try some Montana Gold bullets - it might be the bullets are causing the problem.

Jack

[CocoBolo]

I've read a lot of posts here on the forum that just plain say that Plated Bullets are not accurate. I have no proof of that, but to be on the safe side I use either MontaGold or Zero bullets. It could be that those that are having issues just are not loading them correctly. Again the jacketed bullet is darn near idiot proof, and I can prove that.

Clays it appears is not accurate in 9 mm. I've noticed this in my CZ Shadow with 147gr bulltets, but it sure shoots soft and clean.

N320 would appear to be the best combination of soft and accurate in the 9 mm. I've also run TIteGroup in 9 mm and it shot well, as did WST.

Clays is great in 45 ACP and accurate.

Edited April 18, 2011 by CocoBolo

[High Lord Gomer]

Do the ones that are way outside the normal group also tear the paper? When I crimped plated bullets too much I would get one of of 5 that would be way out and it would tear the paper because I had crimped so much that I had cut the plating.

[Frunta_sti]

Thanks for ideas and advice, I still hope to get some more.

As far as tearing paper- no, all bullets seem to make the hole as normal RN bullet does.

[Frunta_sti]

As far as "fast powder" my perception was that 9 mm uses fast ones anyway (e.g. accurate No.2).

If I got the comment about the fast powder- would that mean that Hodgon Clays might be just too fast for a light bullet like 115grs?

Thanks

[eric nielsen]

A lot of guns shoot horrible groups with Clays, both 9mm and 40cal loads. When I used it years ago the accuracy was very bad and the recoil was very light. Those 2 extremes are not a good combination. A FEW guns & powders work well with Clays but it is rare.

My pet theory is that the base of the bullet is heated super-hot at ignition, then starts to cool & deform in flight going down-range.

Search thru the Reloading, 9mm subforums for accurate loads but you will have better luck with VihtaVouri powders like N320 and N330, several other brands as well. They still shoot pretty soft while giving very good accuracy.

Very tough to find a powder/plated-bullet combination that doesn't occasionally (or always) separate the plating off the back of the bullet. There are exceptions - Sierra bullets are all plated but done differently & not cheap either.

[Frunta_sti]

Cheers mate,

that really frames our problem- I was lost with the discrepancy of amount of powder used and very light recoil- made no sense. Now it kinda does.

Thanks again.

[LikesToShoot]

As mentioned, try another bullet powder. Do a search and you'll get plenty to look into.

I like MG 147gr over 3.4 Titegroup.