kamikaze1a Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 I've been searching visual patience...reading my finds and pondering...it would seem that visual patience is waiting for correct sight alignment before breaking the shot? And though it may take additional time to acquire correct sight alignment, it would be quicker than making up a miss brought on by lack of correct sight alignment? Is this visual patience in a nutshell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3gunfun Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 It sure sounds good to me. But if that's what it is I only have it half the time I'm shooting. I think one step further would be to see your shot and know it's a good hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 If you really want to advance the idea... Go back through how you defined it and lose any thought or notion of time (waiting...taking more time, etc.) Instead of thinking of it as time based, think of it as vision based. This can be huge, because once you learn to see more (of the right stuff), it doesn't take any extra time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 The opposite of visual patience is "Taking Shots that are not there". These normally result in a mike or D hit. The reality of this is like on a swinger you know that first one was there but what about the second one? With visual patience you know the second one was there. I'm with Flex on the seeing more and I've seen noobs take shots with their eyes closed, they didn't see anything. I'm still not seeing everything but after 50K rounds I'm see a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3gunfun Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 If you really want to advance the idea... Go back through how you defined it and lose any thought or notion of time (waiting...taking more time, etc.) Instead of thinking of it as time based, think of it as vision based. This can be huge, because once you learn to see more (of the right stuff), it doesn't take any extra time. Well this explains your Avatar!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 (edited) The definition from page 80 of Brian's book is, "See what you need to see no matter how long it takes." Personally, I think of visual patience as seeing what I need to see to make and call the shot. In some cases, the sight alignment doesn't need to be spot on, nor do the sights need to be in the center of the target. As long as the entire sight picture is acceptable, I am good to go... Edited April 12, 2011 by Ron Ankeny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 The number of 'A's I have during my matches has increased significantly in recent years. Mike Seeklander talked to me about the shooting cycle. One aspect of it was confirmation of the sight picture. Working on this consciously, lead to acquiring visual patience for me. When the sight picture is what I want - typically high A zone, my shot breaks. It is becoming more and more of a subconcious act rather than a concious one. A big step was learning to have confidence that the shot broke correctly. BE helped with his trigger control advice. So three things lead me to shooting more accurately; shooting cycle, trigger control and visual patience all of which improvement my level of confidence, elimination of self-doubt. It is often said, better shooters are really not yanking the trigger faster, they are seeing faster. As Mike has said, your train with your conscious mind and shoot matches with your subconcious mind. At least that is what I think I heard him say! Visual patience, to me, is breaking the shot when the sight picture is the one I want and not before. This theorem holds true for all shots for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikaze1a Posted April 12, 2011 Author Share Posted April 12, 2011 (edited) It is often said, better shooters are really not yanking the trigger faster, they are seeing faster. As Mike has said, your train with your conscious mind and shoot matches with your subconcious mind. At least that is what I think I heard him say! Visual patience, to me, is breaking the shot when the sight picture is the one I want and not before. This theorem holds true for all shots for me. I like that! Thanks for all the comments. I shall take all of this to heart... Edited April 12, 2011 by kamikaze1a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 If you really want to advance the idea... Go back through how you defined it and lose any thought or notion of time (waiting...taking more time, etc.) Instead of thinking of it as time based, think of it as vision based. This can be huge, because once you learn to see more (of the right stuff), it doesn't take any extra time. Good stuff. Since it's been twenty years... I think of many topics much differently than when I wrote PSBF. Today, in anything I wrote, I eliminate any reference to "time" whenever practically possible. This moment's Visual Patience definition: Before you fire each shot, see what you need to see to know the shot will hit the target. (Definition of "target": The A box on an open USPSA target; a steel plate, etc.) be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikaze1a Posted April 12, 2011 Author Share Posted April 12, 2011 If you really want to advance the idea... Go back through how you defined it and lose any thought or notion of time (waiting...taking more time, etc.) Instead of thinking of it as time based, think of it as vision based. This can be huge, because once you learn to see more (of the right stuff), it doesn't take any extra time. Good stuff. Since it's been twenty years... I think of many topics much differently than when I wrote PSBF. Today, in anything I wrote, I eliminate any reference to "time" whenever practically possible. This moment's Visual Patience definition: Before you fire each shot, see what you need to see to know the shot will hit the target. (Definition of "target": The A box on an open USPSA target; a steel plate, etc.) be Thank you. Got that saved in the memory banks, now just need to apply it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powder Finger Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Good stuff. Since it's been twenty years... I think of many topics much differently than when I wrote PSBF. Today, in anything I wrote, I eliminate any reference to "time" whenever practically possible. This moment's Visual Patience definition: Before you fire each shot, see what you need to see to know the shot will hit the target. (Definition of "target": The A box on an open USPSA target; a steel plate, etc.) be Want to add what I think is an example of visual patience just so the topic isn't limited to sights, sight picture etc..... If you are shooting along on an array of targets and one of your cases lands right square on your rear sight as you are on your next target. Do you use the case as your new sight and shoot the shot? Do you tip the gun to get rid of the case and shoot the shot? To me either one is visual patience if you get the shot. Also it can, and should be practiced away from the shooting arena, EX: how many posts on this site do we have the visual patience to acually read what is being written and not glaze over parts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 When I am able to be patient and simply follow my sights through the course of fire things usually work out really well. The points are great, extra shots are few and far between, and perhaps surprisingly the time is good. I struggle with making the process repeatable. If I could clear my mind more consistently and make this happen everytime things would be noticeable better. Working on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikaze1a Posted April 13, 2011 Author Share Posted April 13, 2011 I have been really concentrating on following my fs during practice sessions and get real frustrated when I see dropped shots but during the actual match, I can't seem to recall if I actually applied what I had been practicing BUT my scores have really improved... Oddly enough, it used to be the other way around, better hits during practice and dropped shots during matches... I think all that I have been reading here and BE's "bible" finally starting to sink in. Now, if I could just trim a few seconds off my time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Cline Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 (edited) I have been really concentrating on following my fs during practice sessions and get real frustrated when I see dropped shots but during the actual match, I can't seem to recall if I actually applied what I had been practicing BUT my scores have really improved... Oddly enough, it used to be the other way around, better hits during practice and dropped shots during matches... May I humbly observe that by your own words you've not been engaging in visual patience, yet (but I trust you will). If you are engaging in visual patience you will recall the sight picture of each shot. (eta: after gentle correction it might be more correct to say, "if you're visually patient, at the end of the stage, at the moment of reflection after you show and make clear, you'll be confident your shots will be there, you'll be confident that you were visually patient.") BE has defined and you've had great advise on how to engage it. Maybe I can show you it. In this matchs I had visual patience. I finished 1st in the Single Stack Shootout. I can tell you many months later I knew I shot the one miss, and I had only one other shot in which I became impatient and I lucked out that it wasn't a miss. I could recall each shot. 1- However, in this match, I did not have patience: I did not shoot appreciable faster, I simply was not seeing, and honestly I can't recall many of my shots during that match. The circle is complete. I did not see, therefor I did not shoot well, and I can't recall the shots I didn't see. Hope this helps. Edited April 14, 2011 by Steven Cline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powder Finger Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 I have been really concentrating on following my fs during practice sessions and get real frustrated when I see dropped shots but during the actual match, I can't seem to recall if I actually applied what I had been practicing BUT my scores have really improved... Oddly enough, it used to be the other way around, better hits during practice and dropped shots during matches... May I humbly observe that by your own words you've not been engaging in visual patience, yet (but I trust you will). If you are engaging in visual patience you will recall the sight picture of each shot. Not really disagreeing but the ability to recall what you saw AFTER you shoot the drill is not really necessary, to see it when you are shooting the shots is. Many people take a long time to learn to recall what they saw. An example is that as long as you have your eyes open, I believe everyone see's the brass exit the gun, but ask if they do and most say they don't. Then one day they magically can recall the event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Would it mean something different, if we called it visual discipline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 In my opinion, of all physical, mental, and visual techniques, visual patience is the first to go out the window under the stress of match pressure. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikaze1a Posted April 13, 2011 Author Share Posted April 13, 2011 I was thinking that since I am hitting the mark, that perhaps the visual training was allowing that part to become subconscious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 calling the shots in hitting the mark are 2 separate things. both are along the path that heads in the right direction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Cline Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 I have been really concentrating on following my fs during practice sessions and get real frustrated when I see dropped shots but during the actual match, I can't seem to recall if I actually applied what I had been practicing BUT my scores have really improved... Oddly enough, it used to be the other way around, better hits during practice and dropped shots during matches... May I humbly observe that by your own words you've not been engaging in visual patience, yet (but I trust you will). If you are engaging in visual patience you will recall the sight picture of each shot. Not really disagreeing but the ability to recall what you saw AFTER you shoot the drill is not really necessary, to see it when you are shooting the shots is. Many people take a long time to learn to recall what they saw. An example is that as long as you have your eyes open, I believe everyone see's the brass exit the gun, but ask if they do and most say they don't. Then one day they magically can recall the event. No offense taken, I read back and see that I projected a little and didn't fairly allow for a learning curve. It came immediately to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikaze1a Posted April 13, 2011 Author Share Posted April 13, 2011 calling the shots in hitting the mark are 2 separate things. both are along the path that heads in the right direction 10-4! I used to shoot a stage and wonder where my hits would score. Now, though I can't actually recall each and every shot, I do feel more confident that I hit the mark... Thankful for this venue...invaluable info here along with the helpful tips given! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now