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Speed or accuracy


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Hey everyone, I am really new to competition shooting, I actually shot my first match last sunday, and another match yesterday. I've got 3 pistol match's this weekend and I need some help. How do I find what the right balance is between shooting a stage as fast as I can, compared to putting all shots dead center in the A. On my last match, I shot really fast, but my accuracy was not too good, I had a few deltas and mikes. I am more than capable to shoot a perfect stage, but my time will be slow. So what is a good balance for someone just starting out? I will appreciate any advice you can give me, I have never had more fun in my life than I have had shooting competition, I've got 3 pistol match's this weekend, 1 pistol match next weekend, and then I have my first 3-gun the weekend after that.

btw. I am shooting a Glock 35 with Dawson FO front sight and Dawson fixed rear, Dawson magwell, and competition trigger. if that matters to what advice you give me.

Thanks , Justin

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With that setup I take it you're running Limited or L-10, which division do you shoot? If limited are you running major or minor PF?

Sounds likes you have a good taste for it, and made yourself competitive in arguably the 2 best areas, sights and trigger. You can also look at some grip modes (tape, gripping surfaces/stippling, etc), maybe play with the mag release but you have the basics. Gear is another thing to look at, good holster, mag pouches, and if in L division, mag extensions (not really needed in L-10 obviously..)

Personally, I think accuracy is important to start, the speed will come. Once you get enough experiences in COF's to really "read" them to see what the fastest way to shoot them, faster draws, faster reloads, faster transitions, etc all come with practice. Delta's and Mike's are giving points away.

I'm not sure if this example is that 100% appropriate and on the money, but when you learned to drive you didn't start off going 90 mph, you went slow to get the mechanics of movement down, then gradually built up speed. I can shoot my gun really fast, as fast as I can pull the trigger! But USPSA is a blend of speed, accuracy, power, and fun. Some stages are faster stages, some you need to take your time on the stage.

Get a good grip, a good sight picture, and pull the bang button as soon as you see the sights where you want them.

Practice is really the best way to build up speed. Sounds like you're immersing yourself in the competitions a lot, which is good, there's no substitute for match time, but make sure you're working on the basics: reloads, sight alignment, dry firing, etc. and you'll eventually be able to blend all the elements together.

Welcome and good luck to you!

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When I got started, I saw the good shooters shooting

twice as fast as I did,

so, I started shooting as fast as I could and hoped I

hit the target.

Then I learned that you're supposed to hit the target

as fast as YOU can - Big Difference.

Sounds the same, but it's the exact opposite.

Don't shoot as fast as you can and hope you hit the

target - hit the target as fast as YOU can.

Make sure the sights are on the target before squeezing

the target.

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Plan to shoot two A's as fast as you can. If you drop a couple C's it's not a game ender but if your goal is A's, you'll hit more A's. Speed comes with experience. Fast sounds cool, until you see your score.

I experimented at the Alabama match two weeks ago. I tried to burn down each stage, run it as hard as I could. Shooting minor I gave up some points but my times were good. If you watch the video (link in sig line) you'll see that I look like a bull in a china shop at times. What I learned from watching the video is that I need to back off the speed one step sooner before I shoot. Back it down 5% to gain more points and smoothness. Speed is nothing without control. Not that I was out of control, but I accepted C's and a few D's in the quest for the quickest time.

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I'm not sure if this example is that 100% appropriate and on the money, but when you learned to drive you didn't start off going 90 mph, you went slow to get the mechanics of movement down, then gradually built up speed.

Actually, I think that is one of the best analogies I've heard. Very good. I think I'll use that next time I'm trying to help someone with their shooting.

:cheers:

Edited by Jeff Matzka
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Wow, you've got the bug bad... Welcome to the club and welcome to the forum.

The best place to work on speed is during your practice sessions. That is where you find out what your limits are. (A man's got to know his limitations) Then pull back to those limitations in matches and see what you need to see for every shot. You will find you can finish well ahead of "better" shooters by letting them crash and burn while you shoot within yourself. Most of my practice sessions (I'm mostly a steel shooter) include several runs at a plate rack that are so fast that i am safe but basically out of control. I do this to work on speeding my mind up. During the really fast runs I am consciously, activly looking for that sight picture rather than just pointing and shooting. At first everything seems like a blur but after several runs I find I am actually seeing that sight picture. When i pull back and shoot within myself I find that my runs seem slow but the timer tells me otherwise. So during the match shoot as fast as you your limits allow while activly seeing that sight picture and Seeing the front sight lift in recoil.

The other thing to work on is making use of what I call free time. Free time is time made up that does not effect accuracy. Watch the truely better shooters in your club. You may notice they may not shoot two shots on the same target much faster than you but their total time may be a lot faster. They make up their time between targets (transitions). By learning to drive the gun from target to target you can really speed up your run and still get the same hits. As soon as you see the sights lift on your last shot on a target, snap the eyes to the next target and you will find the guns will tend to snap to the next target as well. (driving the gun)

Dwight

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you can't miss fast enough to win

and

the only thing worse than a miss,...is a slow miss

were my 2 guiding mantras when I began...

the speed came later,..after proving the 2 mantras a few times..

John

Oh yeah the 3rd. unofficial one was "They don't score misses"

practice your fundamentals,..then apply them as quickly as you can given the course of fire..the quick will come with time..

or as the samurai used to say :

The most important part begins even before you put your hand on the sword.

-Joseishi Kendan By Matsura Seizan

Edited by Amerflyer48
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This is simple... both... starting out though, get your hits and have fun, don't over think it. :cheers: The biggest mistake I see new shooters do is, not working out a plan during the walkthrough, then the timer beeps and they go to slide lock several times during the COF, instead of reloading while moving from possition to possition. Use the time during the walkthrough to work out a plan and stick with it. If you come up with a plan and then you exicute it exactly the way you planned, you are on your way to improvement.

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Q: Speed or accuracy?

A: No.

A:Yes

You need both :)

Its not a matter of one or the other, but rather a good combo of each to be fast enough and accurate enough. Shoot a match and see how many physical points you get compared to whats available. ~90% of the available points is a good goal to shoot for (actual number can vary). If you aren't getting that many, you need to slow down a bit and get better hits. If you get more points than that, you have some room to push the throttle a bit to see how fast you can <safely> go to maintain decent hits. There is some give and take and you have to find the happy medium.

As others have said, practice is the best place to push the envelope to see what you are capable of and when you know what you can and can't do, you'll know how you need to shoot a match.

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When I started I was slow compaired to others so I started shooting faster. My score went in the tank, lots of D's and M's

I slowed down and started shooting more for accuracy. Now after shooting a lot of matches my speed is up and so is my score. I think there

is more time to be made up in how you shot the stage and move through it as compaired to how fast you can pull the trigger.

Edited by sauza45
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With that setup I take it you're running Limited or L-10, which division do you shoot? If limited are you running major or minor PF?

Sounds likes you have a good taste for it, and made yourself competitive in arguably the 2 best areas, sights and trigger. You can also look at some grip modes (tape, gripping surfaces/stippling, etc), maybe play with the mag release but you have the basics. Gear is another thing to look at, good holster, mag pouches, and if in L division, mag extensions (not really needed in L-10 obviously..)

Personally, I think accuracy is important to start, the speed will come. Once you get enough experiences in COF's to really "read" them to see what the fastest way to shoot them, faster draws, faster reloads, faster transitions, etc all come with practice. Delta's and Mike's are giving points away.

I'm not sure if this example is that 100% appropriate and on the money, but when you learned to drive you didn't start off going 90 mph, you went slow to get the mechanics of movement down, then gradually built up speed. I can shoot my gun really fast, as fast as I can pull the trigger! But USPSA is a blend of speed, accuracy, power, and fun. Some stages are faster stages, some you need to take your time on the stage.

Get a good grip, a good sight picture, and pull the bang button as soon as you see the sights where you want them.

Practice is really the best way to build up speed. Sounds like you're immersing yourself in the competitions a lot, which is good, there's no substitute for match time, but make sure you're working on the basics: reloads, sight alignment, dry firing, etc. and you'll eventually be able to blend all the elements together.

Welcome and good luck to you!

Yeah I'll be shooting limited, I forgot to say that my G35 does have a full stippled grip, and has the glock extended mag release. I've got some Dawson andd arredondo basepads on the way, but that is mainly to get the mag seated easier with the magwell I have on it.

Thanks for the advice everyone, I am gonna slow it down some, and work on actually getting god hits.

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There are a lot of good "drills" to practice in parts of this forum.

One I like I'm going to try (as soon as the weather breaks, damn you PA winters) is line up about 5 yds from a target and get 2 a zone hits as fast as you can. Once you get a good draw and are getting good hits, back upo another 5 or so yds, and keep increasing the distance.

Like I said, look under the other forum topics, there a multitude of other ways to practic,e check them out and see what works for you!

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Speed and accuracy, but if you continue to practice the accuracy, it seems like the speed begins to develop. But then again, some of us (or should I say "you") are faster than others. I am getting faster with practice, but have come to the realization that most folks will be faster, so I might as well be more accurate. It's kind of like an equation in algebra class. Anything that you add, subtract, divide or multiply changes the number tothe right of the = sign. Reality, what a concept.

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The biggest tip I can offer is to practice your moving. You can do this with an unloaded gun around the house. Pick a spot and practice keeping the gun aligned while moving forward, backward, and sideways. Getting good hits while moving will save you a lot of time. Another thing to practice is stage planning. Look at the stage and determine is it better to rush into position and hose while stationary, or is it better to move at a controlled pace. Many stages can be a combination of the two.

A recent stage I shot called for me to sprint to the first port, sprint to the second port, walk and engage the next two targets, sprint to the final position and engage the remaining targets. Many people walked and engaged the final 6 targets. By sprinting to the final position and then engaging the final 4 targets I cut off several seconds.

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I came from a IDPA and police background. It was really frustating for me to start USPSA and shoot all A's behind someone with a 5 second faster score and A/C's and find in the end they beat me. What I learned is that controlled speed to the point of still attaining 90-95% of the available stage points is the key. I have learned to shoot 90-95% as fast as I can and that has really helped. What I have seen now is if I shoot that way the people beating me are also shooting in that percentage area only faster. Watching them, I have learned they do this by efficiency when NOT shooting, but rather GETTING to the shooting by smoother and faster movement, reloads, splits, and stage breakdown

Bets

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There is no balance between speed and accuracy in USPSA. This sport is geared toward speed. Moderate accuracy is fine if you can do it really fast.

Really?

10 targets, 100 point stage

Shoot all A's = 100 points/15seconds = 6.66 hit factor

Shoot 10 A's and 10 D's = 70points/10seconds = 7.00 hit factor

ummmm, yep speed wins

Shoot 18 A's and 2 Mikes = 90points-20 penalty = 70points/10seconds = 7.00 hit factor

ummmm, seems you can miss fast enough to win

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There is no balance between speed and accuracy in USPSA. This sport is geared toward speed. Moderate accuracy is fine if you can do it really fast.

Really?

Yes. Which is ok. However,all this talk about balance is crazy. This sport is geared toward speed. Why can't we just be honest and say so. Let's not pretend it is something it is not.

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There is no balance between speed and accuracy in USPSA. This sport is geared toward speed. Moderate accuracy is fine if you can do it really fast.

Really?

10 targets, 100 point stage

Shoot all A's = 100 points/15seconds = 6.66 hit factor

Shoot 10 A's and 10 D's = 70points/10seconds = 7.00 hit factor

Not in production, or if you're shooting minor in some other division...

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There is no balance between speed and accuracy in USPSA. This sport is geared toward speed. Moderate accuracy is fine if you can do it really fast.

Really?

10 targets, 100 point stage

Shoot all A's = 100 points/15seconds = 6.66 hit factor

Shoot 10 A's and 10 D's = 70points/10seconds = 7.00 hit factor

ummmm, yep speed wins

Shoot 18 A's and 2 Mikes = 90points-20 penalty = 70points/10seconds = 7.00 hit factor

ummmm, seems you can miss fast enough to win

Thanks. I'll try to keep that in mind.

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There is no balance between speed and accuracy in USPSA. This sport is geared toward speed. Moderate accuracy is fine if you can do it really fast.

Really?

10 targets, 100 point stage

Shoot all A's = 100 points/15seconds = 6.66 hit factor

Shoot 10 A's and 10 D's = 70points/10seconds = 7.00 hit factor

Not in production, or if you're shooting minor in some other division...

You're just silly if you are shooting minor in other divisions than production

So in minor make it

10 alphas, 5 Charlie's, 5 deltas is still 70/10 and still 7%

And yes in minor

18 alphas and 2 mikes is the same as well still 7% hit factor by going faster and having two misses.

If it wasn't about speed then why since the 70's have we been coming up with more ways to go faster, more rounds, less reloads, bigger magwells for faster reloads, dots, comps, sight trackers, bolen base pads to get

21 run limited guns, lower the power factor to shoot faster. Faster faster faster.

I am not saying it is a bad thing, but let's all be honest, speed rules

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