Sig P226 TO

[olp73]

Hi

I am seriously considering start shooting production divition (IPSC rules) . The production division has become a great success and today it is the biggest division by far. There are a lot of competitors at the matches and it all seems like great fun. The only reason I have not is that I have problems finding a gun that I like. I am one of those guys that believe that even thou it is the "Indian" there are big differences between "arrows", and it does makes a difference.

Under IPSC rules you can pretty much do nothing to the gun and then your choice become even more important. I have narrowed my choices down to 5 guns. Another important aspect to consider is how much equipment is available for the pistol you choose. (holster, sights grips etc.)

-Sig 226 (tactical operations)

-Sphinx 3000

-Glock 17

-CZ SP01

-Tanfoglio Stock III

I know that most people are going to say: That's easy buy the CZ or the Tanfoglio, but I am not so sure. I like well made guns and even thou I have never owned a CZ those I have tried are not especially impressive in this regard. The same is true for the Tanfoglio. They are a lot better but needs a gunsmith's attention before they are ready to compete (which is not allowed). When I first heard about the Sphinx 3000 I was sure that was it, but now I hear that none use them anymore due to quality problems. They seem well made but are apparently not up to the task of IPSC shooting.

So, I have the Glock and the Sig left. As much as I like the Glock the grip shape and angel are just terrible. The trigger can be fixed but under IPSC rule this is not allowed (min. 5 pound trigger pull, and that is just too much) I have recently started to look into the Sig 226 pistols, especially the Tactical Operations. If I am not mistaken the European championship PD 2010 was won with a Sig 226 X-five.

I guess this post is about if Sig pistols are suitable chooses for IPSC production division or not, but I am open to any suggestion.

This is my primer concerns:

-Will the aluminum frames be up to the mileage of practical shooting or is steel the only way to go.

-Are there any good aftermarket sights available?

-Are there recoil springs and hammer springs available?

-Are there any good holster chooses out there. Doesn't have to be a race holster.

-Is the SRT trigger race ready right out of the box? What kind of (weight/quality) DA/SA trigger pull can I expect?

-And last, has that new beavertailed frame really helped off the pistols biggest problem (IMHO) That enormously high bore-line!!!

I am really grateful for all help!

Edited March 24, 2011 by olp73

[Bill40718]

Buy a Sig 226 X-Five Allround.

Yes it is more money, but it has adjustable sights from the factory. Nothing has to be done to start shooting.

It is all stainless, so the wear factor is greatly reduced.

Magazines, holsters etc. are readily available. Blade-Tech DOH works for me.

It is reliable and dead accurate.

You can shoot it out of the box. Mine wasn't bad but I felt it could be better. Unfortunately, I didn't measure the pull weight before getting it tuned.

After some trigger work, mine has a very smooth but a bit heavy double action pull. About 7 or 8 lbs. The single action pull is fantastic at about 2.5 lbs.

I've shot a 226 9mm Equinox, 2 Xdm's and 2 M&P's in production.

The X-5 is superior to all in my opinion but I do have an M&P that is close. If you like the plastic guns the M&P would be a good choice. It has a totally different feel than the Glock.

Take this 'personal opinion' for what it is worth to you.

Whatever you decide, enjoy shooting, shoot often and be safe!!

Bill

White Mountains of Arizona

[huskerlrrp]

I really like the SIG P226 platform. With some trigger work and a fiber optic front sight, you should have a fine weapon for Production. Some G10 grips don't hurt either. It's got good balance and will be accurate enough. My personal preference is that the X-Five is a little heavy towards the front and it seems to cycle slower. The all stainless construction and detail of fitting and finish is a bonus and they are typically quite accurate. In my opinion the SRT is a gimmick and a good trigger job and a standard trigger will produce better results.

I've noticed gun ownership is much more difficult in Europe and people tend to spend more money on their weapon since it's a little more difficult to aquire one than the US. However, a West German P226, with a fitted Bar-Sto barrel and a trigger job will shoot just as good as anything out there. Blade-Tech are good hosters, but I think IPSC allows a Ghost holster which would be faster. Dawson Precision and Warren make good sights. I don't find much different between beavertail and standard.

With that said, I have moved to a CZ Shadow Custom. I know you aren't intrested in them, but as a SIG lover, you might want to consider them. They have similar ergonomics to SIG, but with a lower bore axis and the trigger is capable of being tuned to lower pulls than the SIG (at least what I have seen come out of "top named gunsmiths). They are also cheaper than a SIG so you can use the extra money for tuning or more ammo/accessories. My CZ Custom Shadow will shoot nearly as accurate as my X-Five All Around.

Just my opinion, good luck in your search... Skål

Edited March 24, 2011 by huskerlrrp

[olp73]

IPSC production rules are different than the USPSA rule set. Basically it is a true production division. YOU CAN NOT DO ANYTHING TO THE GUN. Except change sights, if the new sights does not require milling and you can change the grips if the profile matches the factory grips. You can also put grip tape on and use aftermarket mags. That is it.

If I could do al the things you guys suggest I would not have a problem with a lot of guns out there. Especially not the CZ SP01.

Yes I forgot, I have actually considered the S&W MP……but have never held one or shot one for that matter. They are cheep, so I’m curios about the quality.

[Bill40718]

From your original posting it looks like you can replace internal parts under IPSC production rules, correct?? The question on springs makes me think so.

If so, you can make an M&P a very nice shooting handgun. I have one, with all APEX internal parts. APEX parts are about $125.00 US.

With the APEX parts installed there is no visible change on the outside of the gun.

Edited to Add - You can also make a very nice trigger on an M&P with just some stoning and polishing. Dan Burwell has an excellant video posted that will guide you through the whole process.

Mine has a trigger pull right at 2.25 lbs. with a very crisp reset. The factory trigger is advertised at 4 to 5.5 lbs. and I found it kind of gritty but usable.

I think the M&P is every bit as accurate as this game needs and very reliable. At least the more recent production of the M&P Pro has been reliable for me. There were extraction problems early on but I believe that has been corrected. I have never had any problems in any of the 3 M&Ps that I have owned, not once.

The M&P grip angle is much like a 1911 and has replaceable grip inserts to enable fitting to each individual.

The M&P Pro comes with adjustable rear sight and fiber optic front sight.

M&P's seem to be catching the Glock's in production, may even have passed them.

Well worth looking in to. Handle one if at all possible, you might like it.

Again, all the above is just one man's experience/opinion. Take it for what it is worth to you.

Bill

White Mountains of Arizona

Edited March 25, 2011 by Bill40718

[whistlepig]

The High Bore Line is a big deal to some........ a non-issue to others. I fall into the non-issue group. Borrow one and shoot it. I find that grip angle and shape play a much larger role. I like sigs and with your list, it would be my pick. But, shoot em all and see then. shoot under time to see if one or the other runs better (tighter groups) for you.

[Z-man]

I really prefer the Sig 226 stainless elite. The all stainless gun balances very well and recoil is very minimal. The gun points great for me!

[Jaxshooter]

My advise would be to buy a Sig 226 with a steel frame vs the alloy frame. I own two Sigs one USPSA 226 stainless and an X-5 Allround both are steel frames. Both guns in my opinion are excellent for Production. The short reset trigger is very nice and the double action pull is nice if you change the mainspring to a 17 lb. If I could only keep one it would definately be the X-5 Allround.

Edited April 7, 2011 by Jaxshooter

[Maksim]

Why not the alloy frame? i have one p226 uspsa, great gun.

[Jaxshooter]

I also like well made firearms. I have two Sigs a 226 USPSA Model with the steel frame and an X-5 Allround. I have the G-10 grips on the USPSA gun and wood Nils grips on the X-5. Both guns have the SRT. That in it self does not take care of the heavy trigger pull. I have changed the mainsprings in both guns to 17 lbs and polished the contact surfaces of the trigger parts and ended up with a 6 lb double action pull and a 2.5 lb single action pull. This is too light for IPSC but you can play with the springs to meet the 5 lb requirement.