JerryShoots Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 First off... If I completely put this in the wrong place please please please move me and let me know. Thank you So I was at my local shop the other day and my favorite gun dealer hands me this 1911. He tells me it's called a Citadel and it's the same as an RIA or an American Classic. Basically an import gun from Legacy Sports Intl. Made in the Phillapines yet oddly full of features and I'll be darned if it doesn't feel pretty good in my hand. Then my crafty old dealer lays the price on me... "For you Jerry ole pal! (evil grin) $465.00 out the door." O.K. I admit it. The worlds 2nd most dedicated Springfield nut has a moment of weakness and a form, credit card, and a handshake later off I go with this import cannon. I get home and I take this thing into the office and set down with the tools for a tear down/exploratory surgery... -First off the trigger is horrible. It's spongy, long and the break is like 11 pounds. O.K. fine I expected that. One trigger job comin up. -Second Flaw is a plastic... yes plastic mainspring housing. Cute little corner cutting there. It needs a magwell anyway so no worries. -This gun has cheap wooden grips. Like checkered by a kindergarten student in the dark cheap. But in the box is a nice set of Hogue rubber grips. I think it must be something the previous owner bought and threw in since it's a new/used or returned unfired piece. A look at the Citadel website tells me though that the spare grips are actually a factory option. Cool I like that. -The guide rod is one of those types that has a groove in it for the barrel link to rest in. I hate those. a lot. That's gotta go because it makes the slide cycle with a real bad hangup in it off the lock up. On the bright side it is full length right from the box which is nice. -The gun is Novak cut. Sure they "look" like Novak but I've seen a few imports that have clones on top that don't measure even close to the cut for the sights they mimic. This is NOT the case with the Citadel. I threw a spare set of the real deal at it and sure enough it's a true Novak both back and front (330x65 degree front btw) Great! No cutting for me! -The slide has front serrations and rears. Big ones that are easy to grab. That makes me really happy as I run from the front and I love a good front cut. Bonus points too that they use the Springfield cut angles, widths and depths. -The barrel seems ok. Well enough fitted and the bushing is almost tight enough to need a wrench to remove. At the range groups were very reasonable with Winchester whitebox 230GR ball and my 168ish power factor lead stuff rolled right through it just fine. Nicer groups with those too. Definately good enough to shoot A's on most targets within reasonable ranges. I also have a feeling that after a few hundred or so rounds of break in it will run better. -I noted one really nice feature to the gun as it comes from Legacy. It has PSI ACT-MAGS. 2 of them (8rnds) and I really like how well those work and more so how smoothly they go into a pistol on the fly. They also have just enough space after round 8 to let them go home on a closed slide without having to slam them in. Good quality mags included is a very nice touch. -An ambi safety is on board from the factory. A pretty good sized one too. Though it hits the grips if you install the Hogues without trimming the grips a bit. A down side though is the grip safety. It's beavertail style and it has a bumper on it but its too shallow for me to peg it every time and I had 1 or two draws at the range that didn't yield a kaboom when I got on the trigger. It works but it is very unforgiving of even a slightly shifted grip on the draw. -The finish is black oxide and seems good enough to protect the gun. I suspect it will wear off faster than high end guns though but not enough time yet on it to tell. (check back on later posts) -Burs burs burs! This pistol when it's apart is an ouch machine. Especially inside the dustcover wherever pins pass through the frame and all around the firing controls. They're not huge though and a little cautious smoothing with a ceramic stone should clean them up no problem. Actually I'm considering passing the frame and slide to my bluing guy to bead blast them and put a good bluing on it. Though I'm going to wait a bit to see how the earlier mentioned finish it has holds up to use first. -The slide lock lever is checkered which is nice though mine is all ready off the gun in favor of a Masen extended serrated which is my stop of choice. I did test fire with the original on board though and it did it's job without a hitch. -Slide to frame fit is actually pretty good. Very little horizontal play and next to no vertical. It could be better but its not bad. We'll see as it breaks in how much of that is fit and how much is burs, imperfections of the slide and excess finish. To sum it all up the gun has flaws. It's certainly not a Springfield, Caspian, Kimber et al. It's also half the price for an equally equipped high end piece. In other words you get what you paid for or rather more than you paid for. Also the parts on it that are the worst also are the ones that most competition shooters replace anyway. Hey why trow off a good part for a great part when you can throw a BAD part for a great part! For those of us who are the build it yourself type or the folks who want very much to taste custom 1911 smithing without risking a thousand dollar gun learning. The Citadel is a great canvas to start with. I will continue to post back with updates throughout the break in process. Also as I build it up for Single Stack division I'll put up a parts list, updated project photos and match feedback once I put it "on the track" Take care all! 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JerryShoots Posted March 23, 2011 Author Share Posted March 23, 2011 If anyone has questions about a part of the Citadel or wants a test performed (how does it like Golden Saber 230's, etc.) during the build let me know. I'm happy to do Guinea Pig duty along the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pro-Pain Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Very informative. I've kicked around getting the imported Armscor/RIA/SAM 1911's and playing inside a bit, keep us updated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryShoots Posted March 24, 2011 Author Share Posted March 24, 2011 First Pics 1: The pistol as it comes from Legacy... 2: Closer view of the weapon by itself... 3. Stock it tips the scales at 2 lbs 4.5 oz. no mag. 2 lbs 6.9oz. with empty mag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pro-Pain Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Are there markings on the other side of the pistol? Like on the slide/frame/dustcover area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryShoots Posted March 24, 2011 Author Share Posted March 24, 2011 A logo on the slide... and on the bottom of the dustcover the importer's mark and Philippines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glockster35 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Its not bad looking on the outside. What does it look like inside? Can you see a lot of tool marks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryShoots Posted March 25, 2011 Author Share Posted March 25, 2011 Yes there are some tool marks and quite a few burs. Once parts arrive and I begin the process of fitting the gun I'll be posting some good inside views. They end result of this project will (I hope) be a gun suitable for USPSA Single Stack with all the edges but under the $1000.00 mark when complete. If this works out we're talking half the cost of a full house Springfield with all the bells and whistles and near to or less than a third of the cost of a tricked out Nighthawk, Wilson, STI. For those "from parts" builders out there I'm hoping to get close to half the cost of building one from the ground up in parts and gunsmith time. We'll see how it goes Stay tuned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pro-Pain Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 What all internals are you smithing/replacing? Anything worth keeping on the inside other than mementos, spare parts or keychain accessories? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryShoots Posted March 25, 2011 Author Share Posted March 25, 2011 So far heres the plan which is subject to change as I go... Parts to go from the gun (Their replacements in parens): 1. Front and rear sights (Novak 330x65degree red fiber optic front/Novak cut STI black serrated adjustable rear) 2. Trigger (Infinty Tri-Glide/long curved insert) 3. Sear spring (Infinity Tri-Glide) 4. Disconnector (Infinity Tri-Glide) 5. Mainspring Housing (Nighthawk checkered w/magwell) 6. Mainspring (15#, 17#, or 19# depending on reliability testing) 7. Slide Stop (Masen extended serrated) 8. Mainspring cap (EGW Ti cap) 9. Hammer strut (STI Ti strut) 10. Recoil spring (15# unless it runs wrong then heavier or lighter depending) 11. Mag Catch (Ed Brown Extended with button) What's staying: -For now the barrel, bushing, guide rod and plug are staying. Eventually I intend to replace the guide rod with Tungsten though finding one in stock anywhere has been a pain so far. Also I want to stick this thing on a scale after the first set of parts go aboard to make sure I still have "room" left for the Tungsten rod.(Note: if you test this at home remember to weigh the gun with the plug and spring but NO guide rod in it to get the proper weight without the Tungsten rod) -The thumb safety is staying. I like the feel of it and I can't run the one I normally favor because I think it constitutes an illegal "thumb rest" in Single Stack (ASC Swenson Shield Safety) -The grip safety is staying for now. After I spend more time with the gun I may lose it in favor of one with a bigger bump on it. -Extractor is staying. It's nice and sharp and it functions flawlessly(knock on wood) same goes for the ejector. Spares that match up are going in the range bag just in case. -Sear and hammer are both staying unless they're made of some kind of soft steel when I get into them. -Pins are staying. Its easier to match a part's I.D. to the pin than to match a different pin to the frame. Plus the pins are all nice and the fit great. Looks like they're hard too probably spring or tool steel. -Plunger tube and plunger/spring are staying. They seem to work very well so far. -Mainspring base plug is staying. I never change these they don't do anything but base the spring and the weight savings switching one is neglegable with no effect on lock time. -Firing pin, block and spring are all staying unless the lock time is too slow. In that case I'll switch to a Ti Pin. -Grip Bushings and screws are staying. Might switch to Torqx head ones later just because they look cool! -Mag Catch screw and spring are staying. Again I might put a torqx screw here as well for the cool factor. -I like the Hogue grips but I may or may not switch them. If I do it will be for a set of Burners and a grip tape job on the front strap. Otherwise possibly some Hogue Outer Limits or Piranha G-10's because they grip great and look awesome. Gunsmithing to do: -Fit all new parts. -Fitting of slide and frame for horizontal and vertical play. The gun is actually pretty tight out of the box but it can be better so may as well go all the way while I'm at it. If you don't have the correct tools for this I'd say it's an O.K. step to skip. -Flat top slide -polish trigger track, slide raceways, guide rod, hammer slot, mag catch passage, disconnector channel and lower facing of slide. -Lower and Flare ejection port -Flare front mag opening in frame -Polish feed ramp -Polish chamber -Blend and fine polish new magwell to frame -bead blast and refinish slide and frame. This will be done after fitting and testing everything and lots of break in firing. I also want to see how the factory finish holds up until I have to remove it. The bead blasting should also help with the fine burs in the gun. -Tune all mags. -Tune ejector. The gun actually has a great ejection pattern but I need to fit and tune a spare ejector in case I break on during a match. -For finish I'm thinking DuraCoat from Lauer. If I stay far enough under budget I might splurge on ArmoryCoat though or maybe RoGuard. -Drill front sight dovetail/Add and fit roll pin. I learned this little gem from J.T. the Great Guru of the 1911 (JT's Gunsmithing of Holland, MI) The hole goes through one side or the other of the front sight blade. Through the dovetail and the slide. A roll pin is placed in the hole and honed off flush inside the slide. This sight will NEVER move. Also drilling similar holes in other sight dovetails allows interchangability of different height fronts. Thank you JT!!!! -Interchange and adjust all springs for optimum running and reliable ignition. -I'm thinking of staying with black finish. With a name like Citadel this is kind of a menacing gun so some red fiber optic, a few hard squared off cuts, edgy looking grips and a blood red trigger and insert should make this thing look downright evil when it's done. Hehe I keep thinking in the back of my creative mind that if Darth Vader carried a gun this thing would be it I'm cool with this gun going over to the dark side. As an afterthought a melted bushing from EGW might take this gun right over the edge... Maybe I'll order one. That's all for now. Parts come in Friday. By the way thanks very much for the interest in the project folks. This forum based blow by blow is making this way more fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody Banks Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) I did a work up on my Citadel over a year ago. I took off the ambi, and put on a nice black stainless checkered tactical thumb safety. I had issues with 3 pt jams and worked on the extractor and broke the sharp edges in the chamber and hood area. I put an extended serrated slidestop on and the black rubber hogue double diamond grips. I complained to the Pahrump Nevada Gunsmith about the extractor, and the plant QC manager in the Philippines and I exchanged some ideas, and diagrams. After modifying the extractor and illustrating the MIM hammer had mold flashing, alonfg with a collapsed half cock notch, the Armscor gunsmith sent me a new hammer and sear, along with a new ambi safety, which is in my spare parts box. The Hammer is off a RIA so its blue, not parkerized, but it looks good, and runs 100% now. The sales rep sent me a bunch of ammo for my time,and its my night guard pistol, for home defense. I thought I posted some comments last year about this time, before I started working on it, but here are some pics of the finished item. I left the polymer mainspring housing on her, but I have a few flat serrated blued housings, so eventually I might change the MSH, the checkered poly has a ragged feel to it at the bottom row, but it is no worse than the Kimber poly housings,at least there's no ILS! Edited March 31, 2011 by Cody Banks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryShoots Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 O.K. Parts are in and installed... Heres a photo of the pistol all fitted and setup with my Kimber kit on top (Slide section is off with my bluing guy until the weekend) What's done... -The Infinity Tri-Glide Trigger, insert, disconnector, sear spring are all installed and fitted. Trigger has less than a millimeter of take-up and virtual zero overtravel. Trigger breaks very clean and crisp at 2lbs. 2.4 oz. -Safety catch is in and fitted. Surprisingly little fitting was needed to get it to smoothly eject mags and very little resistance when loading mags as well. -Nighthawk Mainspring housing and magwell are in. Mags go in super fast and smooth though I will probably blend the well both for even better loading and for the finished look. -17# mainspring along with the EGW Ti Cap and STI Ti hammer strut are in. Lock time on this gun is very fast. -The slide is flat topped and the Fiber front sight is in. I did end up having to re-cut the front dovetail for the sight. It's the right size but there was a messy job done from the factory there and the sight cut was not completely square. This was the only flaw in the machining so far. -The slide will be bead blasted before final bluing and when it comes back I will do the fitting between it and the frame. -I pulled an Ed Brown barrel from another gun to replace it with a comped Clark. So I think I will put it in the Citadel and see if accuracy jumps up though the factory barrel is giving me plenty of accuracy for Single Stack work even at fairly long distances. Problem's... -I ran into the good ole hammer falls to half-cock when the slide is released problem. 5 minutes with the left leg of the sear spring and that was over. -I always test a new build with the Kimber kit in case it goes "full-Auto" on me. Way easier to hang onto the beast in .22 than in .45 HA!! This gun did some doubles when I first tested it but I connected that to the disconnector not having enough tension acting on it from the center leg of the sear spring. Easy fix but I did over do it the first try and ended up squeezing mags with the spring. The center leg always seems to give me the toughest time finding the balance. -The right leg of the sear spring was under tensioned so no grip safety at first. Again easy fix but worth noting. I like a grip safety that pops right back when I let go so I usually set the right leg a little high. -Gun shoots low. Not terribly low but a little bit. Slightly shorter front sight when I switch to the fiber optic should fix that. If not Kensight's adjustable Novak rear will end the worry. I really like the STI adjustable but the Kensight is cheaper and it feels more like a Novak to me and less like a Novak trying to be a Bomar. -The factory disconnector on the Citadel I got was ugly. So ugly it actually hung up the slide for the first quarter inch or so of movement. If you buy one of these and leave it stock make sure you check that part at the store if possible. Definately when you get home if not. Remember if a disconnector sucks change it. Please don't ever file a disconnector down it's too dangerous for a relatively cheap part to swap. -The grip screw bushings on the Citadel are smaller than most. If you go with wood grips they could feel loose and lead you to over tighten and strip the bushings. May be worth a swap to a standard sized set though I didn't need to for my build. I should have the slide back this weekend and will get in gear with final test firing and updates during next week. Thanks again to those who have been following this build. This has been great fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pro-Pain Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Looking great! Keep us updated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryShoots Posted April 2, 2011 Author Share Posted April 2, 2011 Update Slide is finished and blued. Haven't seen it yet but should be able to pick it up Monday or Tuesday. The first match the Citadel is going to is coming up next weekend. We'll see how it runs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryShoots Posted April 7, 2011 Author Share Posted April 7, 2011 (edited) Update Well here it is folks.... The red Novak front and SV Triglide trigger really make this piece look sinister. Other side... Top view. The flat top adds a lot to the looks of this gun plus I've always been a sucker for them. This things shoots like a house afire!!!!!! The final parts are on the way but they aren't going to change it much. The slide was reblued due to the flat top. The frame has not been yet. I'm not impressed with the standard Citadel finish it's way too easy to scratch. The frame will get refinished as well but not until I shoot the gun a bunch and decide if I'm going to undercut the trigger guard. Let me know what you think! Edited April 7, 2011 by JerryShoots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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