centermass Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewiston Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Hard to tell context with single pic. Is she raising the gun to fire at targets directly in front of her? At what point did her finger go into the guard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Pictures like this are very subjective because there is no before and after context. We can't see what is in front of her or know what her immediate actions are right after the picture is taken. There could be a target right in front of her and she is in the middle of bringing the gun up to fire. She could also be running several paces with her finger in the trigger guard. There is no way to truly judge the situation without knowing the context of the situation. I am sure that you could take pictures of shooters all day long and see "Questionable" situations during stage runs, but when you only have a single frame in time captured with no further information its not viable to pass judgment either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clown Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 +1 Lewiston. From one frame out of a second? Is she bringing the gun up to engage? Is she in the process of taking her finger out? Is that her first step out of position? Show me video. Maybe Athena will chime in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedog Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Can't be answered with information given. A frame in time has no context, thus no available conclusion. So, no, no D.Q. Were you there and can provide more info or is this hypothetical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Need more context around the photo. She could be prepping or have just finished point shooting at a close target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Damn right I would. Who doesn't like Dairy Queen...I'd take her to DQ anytime... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Long live DQ! Who wants a blizzard? From a picture you can't answer that question, to many things that we don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putty Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Damn right I would. Who doesn't like Dairy Queen...I'd take her to DQ anytime... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Mmmmmmmmmm.....blizzard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSteel Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Question is, was she DQ'ed?? No, then the RO did their job and felt comfortable that the competitor was not breaking the rules in regards to safety. If she was DQ'ed, then the RO did their job based on what they saw at the time. My point, pretty subjective but RO'ing from the gallery is pretty difficult without the WHOLE picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adively Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 This is why there is: 11.1.5 Retain Evidence – An appellant is required to inform the Range Master of his wish to present his appeal to the Arbitration Committee and may request that the officials retain any and all relevant documentary or other evidence pending the hearing. Photos, audio and/or video recordings will not be accepted as evidence. You cannot tell what context this single point in time is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) With that image quality and angle its not possible to see if the finger is inside the trigger guard. If her finger is bent but just moved outside of the trigger guard then it would appear as if her finger was inside when it isn't. You can try this yourself, hold the gun with your finger on the trigger, now keeping the same bend on your finger move it outside of the trigger guard. From the side it will look like you have your finger on the trigger. I see nothing DQ'able (is that a word?) in this picture. Edited March 18, 2011 by BritinUSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 What mister Dively said. There is a reason pictures and vids are not allowed to be used in arbitration. If the RO did not DQ her you have to assume there is no reason to do so and that the RO is doing their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirveyr Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Would you DQ her if it was wasn't Athena Lee? I'm just curious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Finger could be yelled for sure. But not enough to other information here to DQ. It would be tough as the RO to be in a position to see if that finger was in the trigger guard or not because you are most likely behind her. Like Angus says if you break the 180 don't let the RO see you do it. How many fingers are on the trigger during reloads and while moving. Plenty! But the RO can have a real hard time seeing it. I can only call what I can see and be sure of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 For what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) The picture quality on my Apple looks pretty good. I was able to zoom in several times. I can see the front of the trigger guard. I can make out her knuckles. I can not see her finger nail. I would conclude from what I can determine that her finger is within the trigger guard. Context: If she had this same position for a few steps prior to the picture (and not sighting a target ) and a few steps after the picture and was not bringing the gun to sight on a target, I would DQ her. Otherwise, no DQ. Regardless of who the shooter might be. For me this is a big deal. I really see many shooters moving with their finger in the trigger guard. Too many ROs let it slide. Edited March 18, 2011 by pjb45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I can not see her finger nail. There are three possible reasons that I can think of; 1. The finger is bent, but outside the trigger guard 2. Her finger is inside the trigger guard 3. Athena has very short nails I don't see anything in this picture that constitutes a DQ. You have to be sure there is an infraction... if there is a doubt then the shooter gets the benefit of that doubt. Can you or anyone else say from a single picture that a DQ is warranted...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 This is finger in the trigger: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 depends on where that finger has been, or is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 The picture quality on my Apple looks pretty good. I was able to zoom in several times. I can see the front of the trigger guard. I can make out her knuckles. I can not see her finger nail. I would conclude from what I can determine that her finger is within the trigger guard. Context: If she had this same position for a few steps prior to the picture (and not sighting a target ) and a few steps after the picture and was not bringing the gun to sight on a target, I would DQ her. Otherwise, no DQ. Regardless of who the shooter might be. For me this is a big deal. I really see many shooters moving with their finger in the trigger guard. Too many ROs let it slide. I spent 14 years making my living behind a camera, specializing in sports for the last 8-10 years. I've zoomed in on that photo, and it pixelates into jibberish, long before I can get it enlarged enough to tell where the finger ends, and the trigger guard begins.... That's one of the reason photo evidence isn't allowed at arbitration -- first you need really good photos, shot from the exact correct angle, then you need experts in analyzing the images to determine what happened... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 The short answer is NO. Whether it's Athena or not, you can't really tell, and if you DQ someone on a guess or an assumption, then you have no business running shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 The short answer is NO. Whether it's Athena or not, you can't really tell, and if you DQ someone on a guess or an assumption, then you have no business running shooters. Well said...on all accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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