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Legal to paint the inside of the magwell?


bobmysterious

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So it seems the era of the barber-pole is gone. From John Amidon this afternoon:

Vince,

As Appendix D4 item 21.2a Slide refinishing states, “this clause is now interpreted to specifically allow refinishing the frame as well as the slide subject to the existing constraints on refinishing (cosmetic only, no competitive advantage). Putting a paint mark on the magwell as a reference point to insert the magazine, to me would fall under competitive advantage.

John

From: vluc

Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 11:06 AM

To: dnroi@uspsa.org

Subject: production question

Is it legal to paint or mark inside the magazine well in production? See thread at Enos:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=125129&pid=1413398&st=0entry1413398

Vince

That answer is not at all what I expected it to be. This goes to show that some questions are better left "unasked"... :D

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Vince,

Putting a paint mark on the magwell as a reference point to insert the magazine, to me would fall under competitive advantage.

John

Ok it's not a reference point but decoration, now it's ok. Add your initials in the paint now it's decoration and not a reference point. Some of the quotes by JA posted here really make me wonder if we should only provide a well thought out and planned question to JA.

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That answer is not at all what I expected it to be. This goes to show that some questions are better left "unasked"... :D

You know, that thought did go through my mind, but I've always been one to flip over rocks. Have to be willing to deal with whatever pops up when you flip it over!

If not me, it would have been someone else. How can I, as an SC, ignore the question and not want an answer? Now if the op had not asked the question, and I'd not read the thread, who knows?!

It does bring us back to the head scratching of the interpretations. No, it is not "official", but there seems to be little consistency that we can see/figure in the decision making. I can refinish the slide in another color, stipple the grip and change the contours of the gun, but can't put a tiny piece of grip tape under the trigger guard or a spot of paint on the inside of the gun as they are "competitive advantages". So is going to a match the day before and scoping the stages. I might be able to afford that extra day, somebody else may not. Who has the advantage?

We preach Indian not arrow, but don't personalize that arrow!

Edited by vluc
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What is the dot in the mag well for? Is it to guide the mag in the gun? If so, is that not an aide? Going by the rules, no aides.

Changing it to morse code or whatever now becomes circumventing the rules, hence wrong.

I don't want to win that way. Not that I win any way.

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Hang tight guys. I bounced the question to the BOD this AM. I think part of that may have been the way the question was phrased. I'll let you know what the answer is as soon as I get it.

As far as wanting to circumvent the rules I doubt anyone is looking here to cheat. It's just many Production shooters have had this done for years and years, have gone to Nationals and never had an issue with it. It's just a bit surprising to have a change like this.

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Hang tight guys. I bounced the question to the BOD this AM. I think part of that may have been the way the question was phrased. I'll let you know what the answer is as soon as I get it.

Thank you, Chuck.

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Hang tight guys. I bounced the question to the BOD this AM. I think part of that may have been the way the question was phrased. I'll let you know what the answer is as soon as I get it.

As far as wanting to circumvent the rules I doubt anyone is looking here to cheat. It's just many Production shooters have had this done for years and years, have gone to Nationals and never had an issue with it. It's just a bit surprising to have a change like this.

Thanks, Chuck. Passed on to my AD as well.

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Vince,

Putting a paint mark on the magwell as a reference point to insert the magazine, to me would fall under competitive advantage.

John

Ok it's not a reference point but decoration, now it's ok. Add your initials in the paint now it's decoration and not a reference point. Some of the quotes by JA posted here really make me wonder if we should only provide a well thought out and planned question to JA.

Taken from the OP's message:

Just wanted to ask y'all if it's legal to paint the inside of the magwell if you shoot production.

Same as my question. JA added the "reference point" interpretation to clarify his answer.

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Opps, sorry, should have read all the way to the end.

John made the right call. Those "decorative" markings are there to aid the shooter in his reload. To provide a competitive advantage. We all know it.

Edited by Steven Cline
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Isn't everything we do the gun in our sport for a competitive advantage? Otherwise, why would you do it? Fiber optic front sight, replacement grips, stippling/grip tape, trigger jobs, polishing the feed ramp, etc, etc, etc. Some might say functionality or reliability. The goal is to reduce malfunctions, aka reduce stage time and increase hit factor.

Any change a shooter makes to his/her gun is because he/she thinks it gives them a competitive advantage. Yes, no?

A dot in the mag well seems trivial considering the other mods done in the name of function and reliability.

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Maybe I'm confused (which happens easily), but this is an "internal modification," is it not?

Production Rules , Appendix D4 21.5 says

• Strikers, sears, springs, connectors/disconnectors,

and any other part which is NOT visible when the

gun is in battery is considered an INTERNAL part

and may be modified or replaced unless otherwise

prohibited in these

my emphasis. This part of the magwell is another part, not visible in battery (if done where the magazine sits in), and is modified. So is it legal if you can't see it when the magazine is inserted? Is the inside of the frame, which CAN BE construed as a part, be known as an "internal part" on the inside? That's all you're changing, an internal part?

Or am I completely off in this line of thinking?

(to be honest, I JUST found out about this trick, and wanted to try it..

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So the internal magwell on my Glock 34 is production legal but the orange nail polish is not??? Since an internal magwell is deemed legal and definetely gives a competitive advantage but is classified as an internal part, wouldn't the orange mark also be legal??

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Since plugs that don't the change the gun's profile, as well as the Sevigny Speedway are legal (as per 22.2 and 22.4), who said that the plastic used for these has to be black or match the color of the frame?

Alternatively, as far as I know, there is no rule restricting shooters from using pro-grip. Doesn't the white residue of the pro-grip on the shooters hand wrapped around the grip help outline the dark opening of the magwell? What's to restrict a shooter from drawing the same barber pole on top of the pro-grip on their hand other than possibly looking silly with a striped hand?

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Since plugs that don't the change the gun's profile, as well as the Sevigny Speedway are legal (as per 22.2 and 22.4), who said that the plastic used for these has to be black or match the color of the frame?

Alternatively, as far as I know, there is no rule restricting shooters from using pro-grip. Doesn't the white residue of the pro-grip on the shooters hand wrapped around the grip help outline the dark opening of the magwell? What's to restrict a shooter from drawing the same barber pole on top of the pro-grip on their hand other than possibly looking silly with a striped hand?

Or skate tape. You can get the tape in every color or design. The rules just say skate tape, doesn't say it has to be black?

What if the inside of the magwell (or outside, for that matter) is scuffed up? Could be "normal wear and tear," but produce a graying/whitening effect if severe enough? We start down this slippery slope, pretty soon holster wear is going to be confused for forward cocking serrations.

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  • 2 weeks later...

So you can't paint inside your magwell but you can bevel it, or on like Glocks fill it in with some material and completley rehape it to make a smoother magwell (it was called an internal mod)? :blink:

You can take a soldering iron to your grip, and make a permanent external mod, but no paint.

You can mill your slide for aftermarket sights, making a permanent external mod, but no paint.

You can... oh never mind. This is why I don't shoot Production any more. :ph34r:

PLEASE quit asking Amidon questions, for problems that don't exist.

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