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Legal to paint the inside of the magwell?


bobmysterious

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Just wanted to ask y'all if it's legal to paint the inside of the magwell if you shoot production. I've got a Glock 34 that I was thinking about hitting on the lip of the magwell with a little orange paint.

Thanks in advance----

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To the best of my knowledge - yes.

I've seen several people put color or a mark or X into their Glock magwells in Production.

I used to have an orange dot in mine to give some inbound guidance (it's like the painted on fly in the urinal...).

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I was just a little confused because I had seen some internal magwells that are apparently legal, but would be visible from outside of the gun. So it would seem that if that worked then some paint would fly as well. Thanks for the input.

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So those guys who put those white dots on the inside of the mouth of their (Glock) magwells could be (or should be) shooting open?

Personally, I think that painting the inside is allowed based on my reading of 21.2a with the added clarification:

Per existing NROI ruling, cosmetically enhancing the finish of a slide is already ALLOWED in Production Division, provided that the finish provides no competitive advantage.

This clause is NOW interpreted to specifically ALLOW refinishing the frame, as well as the slide, subject to the existing constraints on refinishing (cosmetic only, no competitive advantage).

Special Notes/Clarifications:

• Any finish which provides a noncosmetic function will be deemed PROHIBITED. For example, a gun finish which provides a roughened texture in an area where grip tape is not allowed (Appendix E4) is a PROHIBITED modification.

Since the inside of the magwell is part of the frame, I'd suppose that refinishing by painting should be allowed.

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So those guys who put those white dots on the inside of the mouth of their (Glock) magwells could be (or should be) shooting open?

Personally, I think that painting the inside is allowed based on my reading of 21.2a with the added clarification:

Per existing NROI ruling, cosmetically enhancing the finish of a slide is already ALLOWED in Production Division, provided that the finish provides no competitive advantage.

This clause is NOW interpreted to specifically ALLOW refinishing the frame, as well as the slide, subject to the existing constraints on refinishing (cosmetic only, no competitive advantage).

Special Notes/Clarifications:

• Any finish which provides a noncosmetic function will be deemed PROHIBITED. For example, a gun finish which provides a roughened texture in an area where grip tape is not allowed (Appendix E4) is a PROHIBITED modification.

Since the inside of the magwell is part of the frame, I'd suppose that refinishing by painting should be allowed.

I would say the Special Note at the end covers the painting of 3 dots. Noncosmetic function.

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Thread link sent to John Amidon for a definitive answer.

I've been running the barberpole since forever (at least 2003) and have shot areas and sectionals on a yearly basis and have never had it called. My former area director was the chrono guy at one match 2 years ago and it passed muster.

Not to say that the interpretation could not have changed! What was once legal may now be illegal. What was once illegal is now legal.

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Thanks! Glad I asked a pertinent question, I was worried this one might have been asked and answered on a regular basis.

Rules and their interpretation can change, always good to ask. Best to ask John Amidon as his ruling is usually the final one here. Lot's of times it doesn't matter what we think, it's how the rules are.

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No.

Appendix D4-21 lists allowed modifications. If it's not listed, it can't be done.

Using an absolutely literal interpretation of what is written in the Appendix then you are probably correct. However the rule change was an attempt to put the horse back in the barn after a side of the barn collapsed. The worse kind of rule is one that tries to imply that if it isn't specifically authorized then it is proscribed. I doubt very seriously if the framers of the rules ever considered that people would seriously consider arguing that some paint on the inside if the frame was a competitive advantage.

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No.

Appendix D4-21 lists allowed modifications. If it's not listed, it can't be done.

Using an absolutely literal interpretation of what is written in the Appendix then you are probably correct. However the rule change was an attempt to put the horse back in the barn after a side of the barn collapsed. The worse kind of rule is one that tries to imply that if it isn't specifically authorized then it is proscribed. I doubt very seriously if the framers of the rules ever considered that people would seriously consider arguing that some paint on the inside if the frame was a competitive advantage.

I agree with your comments, but then they allowed stippling the grip (even though you cannot remove material or change the profile of the gun). Maybe if we stippled holes through the bottom that would be an acceptable solution if the ruling comes out that my little coloring is a competitive advantage.

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I think I am the originator of the "barber pole"...though the basis for the idea has been around for a long time (I believe I got it from BE and he used a dot of some sort).

I had always ran a version of this in Production.

post-690-049138700 1300313405_thumb.jpg

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I think I am the originator of the "barber pole"...though the basis for the idea has been around for a long time (I believe I got it from BE and he used a dot of some sort).

I had always ran a version of this in Production.

post-690-049138700 1300313405_thumb.jpg

Got my idea from you years ago, but did not know if you still ran it or not, so I didn't link you earlier.

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So it seems the era of the barber-pole is gone. From John Amidon this afternoon:

Vince,

As Appendix D4 item 21.2a Slide refinishing states, “this clause is now interpreted to specifically allow refinishing the frame as well as the slide subject to the existing constraints on refinishing (cosmetic only, no competitive advantage). Putting a paint mark on the magwell as a reference point to insert the magazine, to me would fall under competitive advantage.

John

From: vluc

Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 11:06 AM

To: dnroi@uspsa.org

Subject: production question

Is it legal to paint or mark inside the magazine well in production? See thread at Enos:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=125129&pid=1413398&st=0entry1413398

Vince

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Thread link sent to John Amidon for a definitive answer.

I've been running the barberpole since forever (at least 2003) and have shot areas and sectionals on a yearly basis and have never had it called. My former area director was the chrono guy at one match 2 years ago and it passed muster.

Not to say that the interpretation could not have changed! What was once legal may now be illegal. What was once illegal is now legal.

Well, as you see, the answer is not what we may have thought it was. My glocks have been de-poled.

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So it seems the era of the barber-pole is gone. From John Amidon this afternoon:

Vince,

As Appendix D4 item 21.2a Slide refinishing states, “this clause is now interpreted to specifically allow refinishing the frame as well as the slide subject to the existing constraints on refinishing (cosmetic only, no competitive advantage). Putting a paint mark on the magwell as a reference point to insert the magazine, to me would fall under competitive advantage.

John

From: vluc

Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 11:06 AM

To: dnroi@uspsa.org

Subject: production question

Is it legal to paint or mark inside the magazine well in production? See thread at Enos:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=125129&pid=1413398&st=0entry1413398

Vince

So if we paint it all the way around, and call it artistic, will that change his answer?

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So it seems the era of the barber-pole is gone. From John Amidon this afternoon:

Vince,

As Appendix D4 item 21.2a Slide refinishing states, "this clause is now interpreted to specifically allow refinishing the frame as well as the slide subject to the existing constraints on refinishing (cosmetic only, no competitive advantage). Putting a paint mark on the magwell as a reference point to insert the magazine, to me would fall under competitive advantage.

John

From: vluc

Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 11:06 AM

To: dnroi@uspsa.org

Subject: production question

Is it legal to paint or mark inside the magazine well in production? See thread at Enos:

http://www.brianenos...0

Vince

So if we paint it all the way around, and call it artistic, will that change his answer?

Devil's Advocate mode here: Since some people have put camo finishes on their guns, it's time to go retro and put the old WWII "Dazzle" pattern... Just let the pattern happen to have a nice pointy arrow showing where mags are suppose to go. devil.gif

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So it seems the era of the barber-pole is gone. From John Amidon this afternoon:

Vince,

As Appendix D4 item 21.2a Slide refinishing states, “this clause is now interpreted to specifically allow refinishing the frame as well as the slide subject to the existing constraints on refinishing (cosmetic only, no competitive advantage). Putting a paint mark on the magwell as a reference point to insert the magazine, to me would fall under competitive advantage.

John

From: vluc

Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 11:06 AM

To: dnroi@uspsa.org

Subject: production question

Is it legal to paint or mark inside the magazine well in production? See thread at Enos:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=125129&pid=1413398&st=0entry1413398

Vince

Isn't this just Amidon's "unofficial" personal opinion, at least until (if/when) it's posted on the NROI Rulings?

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So it seems the era of the barber-pole is gone. From John Amidon this afternoon:

Vince,

As Appendix D4 item 21.2a Slide refinishing states, "this clause is now interpreted to specifically allow refinishing the frame as well as the slide subject to the existing constraints on refinishing (cosmetic only, no competitive advantage). Putting a paint mark on the magwell as a reference point to insert the magazine, to me would fall under competitive advantage.

John

From: vluc

Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 11:06 AM

To: dnroi@uspsa.org

Subject: production question

Is it legal to paint or mark inside the magazine well in production? See thread at Enos:

http://www.brianenos...0

Vince

Isn't this just Amidon's "unofficial" personal opinion, at least until (if/when) it's posted on the NROI Rulings?

Yes.

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