West Texas Granny Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Well my latest mag shows a guy who got a procedural for holding a rag/towel /piece of cloth. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Page number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 (edited) Page 34 is where the picture is, with caption, and the write up is on 36. But it is IPSC rules, not USPSA, the match was in Europe. Don't no why, but it said "illegally holding a towel" Edited March 5, 2011 by sfinney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkatz44 Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 I think you are referring to Blake Miguez at the European Championship. He incurred a procedural because the RO said that he was a using a towel in his hand as a "aiming device". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 That would be a ISPC rules, they have this silly little rule saying you can't use "sighting aids" during a walk through. This apparently includes water bottles, towels, and maybe cigars in your hands when you point at a target. The match in question was an European match under IPSC rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 On page 36 is says the RO considered him holding a towel at "Load and make Ready" an aiming device in violation of 8.7.4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 From the IPSC rulebook: 8.7.4. Competitors are prohibited from using any sighting aid (e.g. the whole or part of an imitation or replica firearm, any part of a real firearm including any accessories thereof etc.), except for their own hands, while conducting their inspection ("walkthrough") of a course of fire. Violations will incur one procedural penalty per occurrence (also see Rule 10.5.1). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSAF61 Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 On page 36 of the March issue. I was shooting in the same squad with Blake. Long story short. Long field course with a loaded gun on table start and all magazines on table. Start position was seated facing uprange. Blake was given the make ready command. After making ready, he returned to the start position where he had left a white hand towel. He picked the white towel up and sat down and wiped his face and hands off. The RO on the right side of the stage yelled "That is a procedural." After completing the stage, Blake was informed he had broken rule 8.7.4. He appealed to the CRO, then the Range Master, who both refused to overturn the call. Discretion being the better part of valor, Blake declined to go to arbitration. Who knew that a small white towel was an aiming device. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 That sounds even dumber. As he was not conducting his walkthrough how does that even count. Meh. Combine that with them not reading his name during the awards, and it sounds almost like they don't like americans or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 he was snapping the towel in the general direction of the targets.......ok yeah that is a little silly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 I edited the title to be clear that this is an IPSC rule; not USPSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfchorn Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 I am confused from the description of the event. If he was sitting facing UPrange when he wiped his face and hands, I would ask what he could possibly be aiming at? Wow. Just......wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 (edited) I just registered on "global village" to see if there is any more information available there. I'm not fluent in the IPSC rules, but it's hard to believe there isn't more to this than we know about. A moderator has to approve my membership. Since it's the middle of the night in Europe, it might be a few hours before I'm able to search their forums. Edited March 5, 2011 by sperman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Don't bother. This is politics and clownshoes, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Texas Granny Posted March 6, 2011 Author Share Posted March 6, 2011 On page 36 is says the RO considered him holding a towel at "Load and make Ready" an aiming device in violation of 8.7.4 Yea right. So are my Martha Stewart bath towels legal or do I have to stay with her Tea Towels on my Glock. BTW what rear sight is best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 I remember when I was taking my RO class back in 2007 our USPSA/IPSC rulebook still had that same "sighting aid" rule in, our instructor had said that a video camera would also have counted as a sighting aid. I was a bit incredulous at that statement, but reading now that a towel also a sighting aid is just outrageous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Ok folks, you all know the rules here. If you wish to participate in this conversation, leave the name calling and labeling out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedog Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Really? A towel? Really? Without malice can someone explain to a noob how this is possible? I do not understand. Are you allowed to point, or is anything in yer hand not allowed? Thank you for the expected education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryO Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 I remember when I was taking my RO class back in 2007 our USPSA/IPSC rulebook still had that same "sighting aid" rule in, our instructor had said that a video camera would also have counted as a sighting aid. I was a bit incredulous at that statement, but reading now that a towel also a sighting aid is just outrageous. So, If I've got this right, having a miniature video camera mounted on your ear gear is a sighting device? OK, that makes a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 At one of the Area 2 matches before the 2008 rule book came out, I was doing a walk through and wiping my brow with a bandanna and was asked by the RO: "That isn't a sighting device, is it?" The rag was quickly stowed. After that, I made sure my hands were empty of anything until make ready. USPSA had the same rule from 2004 to 2008. I heard rumor it was in response to someone using an Airsoft gun on a walk through. It isn't only IPSC. Fortunately, the rule was changed here. Later, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maks_H Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 I just registered on "global village" to see if there is any more information available there. I'm not fluent in the IPSC rules, but it's hard to believe there isn't more to this than we know about. A moderator has to approve my membership. Since it's the middle of the night in Europe, it might be a few hours before I'm able to search their forums. Global Village is not an European site, but it's global. So the Administrators are from all over the world. The chief of all chiefs is Secretary Vince Pinto, who lives from Hong Kong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 I couldn't find any discussion on the Global Village. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Texas Granny Posted March 6, 2011 Author Share Posted March 6, 2011 As I complete my first year as a USPSA member I just wonder what other things I'm going to see like this towel debacle. The same issue had a question on a belt being "secure". It makes me wonder how a belt that I wear that doesn't pass through belt loops is not secure. This belt of mine carries 12 moon clips loaded with 230 grain 45acp plus a S&W 25-2 and it doesn't move. Yet according to the answer given I could not use a belt like mine. Just wondering if suspenders attached to my belt would be acceptable in place of belt loops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 As I complete my first year as a USPSA member I just wonder what other things I'm going to see like this towel debacle. The same issue had a question on a belt being "secure". It makes me wonder how a belt that I wear that doesn't pass through belt loops is not secure. This belt of mine carries 12 moon clips loaded with 230 grain 45acp plus a S&W 25-2 and it doesn't move. Yet according to the answer given I could not use a belt like mine. Just wondering if suspenders attached to my belt would be acceptable in place of belt loops. Sorry, but it would not be an acceptable alternative 3 loops minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Texas Granny Posted March 7, 2011 Author Share Posted March 7, 2011 So what is a granny to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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