Do you understand the course of fire

[lcs]

When I am ROing and I have someone who has never shot USPSA before (Local match only), I will ask them if they understand the COF. The next time they show up, I use nothing but the "by the book" commands. Just to be clear, I use "by the book" commands after asking them if they understand the COF. I do it more for safety reasons then how to shoot the COF.

At a local match I feel a new shooter should get all the help he/she needs to keep things safe. I also want them to come back and have a good time. Once a shooter is experienced, then everything should be by-the-book.

IMHO, I beleive you should ALWAYS RO only by the book. It helps ALL levels of competitors. The squad mates should be helping a new shooter, and as a CRO on a stage, you should ask a seasoned competitor to hlep them and focus on ROing. The "understanding" of the course of fire should have occurred much before the competitor stesp up to the start position. The scorekeeper should make sure the correct shooter and scoresheet are matched up, not the RO running the clock.

Never said I do not "RO by the book" ! Asking a first timer if they understand..... before you issue the make ready command is hardly not ROing by the book". Again, we are talking local matches.

[lcs]

Just to be clear, I don't ask every shooter that comes to the line if they have any questions. I use it rarely and only if they're new, or new enough to be rattled upon arrival. Like Jamie said, it's part of the service. I know the difference between a novice's nerves and an experienced shooter who's amped up. I don't necessarily treat them the same.

If you've been doing this for any amount of time, my first communication will be, "Make ready!"

+1 Well said!

[Jeff Matzka]

This may be unpopular, but I for one don't mind someone asking me if I understand the course of fire. I'm one of the ones who usually inquire about the starting position. That question has saved my butt more often than not, so I'm grateful for it - ruleful or not. (Yeah I know - ruleful is not a word. It is now). I know it's my "responsibility" to know the procedure, course of fire, yada-yadda before I get to the line. But I'm 50 years old, have a massive case of C.R.S AND A.D.D. out the wazoo. Sometimes I forget. Sometimes I miss part of the walkthrough - either through my own fault or no fault of my own. So I'm happy for the chance to ask questions. Last I heard...this is a sport. A GAME. A recreation. No ones life or livilhood hangs in the balance. To me, it's really not that big a deal if someone hearkens back to a bygone era with a command of "Slide forward, hammer down, holster" or my favorite..."Gas 'em up". I came to the match to have fun, and life's to short to worry about every jot-&-tittle of the rules for range commands. Just my opinion. Yours may differ. This is America. You GET to think differently here if you like.

[Coach]

At major matches the range command make ready should be the first thing said when the shooter steps up and the range is clear. At level one matches with experienced shooters stick to the range commands. I have seen situations where guns were pulled at the first words of the RO because the shooter was expecting Make Ready, but go Do you have any questions instead. Not a good situation.

If it is a complicated stage in a level 1 that has a complex stage briefing instead of using walls to obscure targets I could see asking about questions in order reduce confusion.

[Poppa Bear]

I play it all by ear. If they look lost I ask if they understand. If it is a classifier that requires freestyle/ strong hand, freestyle/ weak hand, I generally ask if they understand the WSB while they are stepping into the box. That way if they still tank it by shooting it all freestyle they cannot say they did not understand.

I will coach them on start position if they fail to assume it. Usually it is a matter of them not having their hands in the proper location or not having their feet on the X's.

When I give the WSB I usually mention that assuming the start position is when I will start the commands. That way we both understand what I am looking for. I do get a bit irritated when a shooter shows up and points at the targets multiple times, ie. 2,4,6,8,.... 4,5 or 6 times as they still try to get their plan ironed out, and they are near the middle to the end of the shooting order.

That said most shooters are straight by the book commands because they are experienced shooters.

I do appreciate those who make me aware of planned movements after the start signal that might put me on the wrong side of them. Just like I will let the RO know if I plan to move to the rear several steps because it gives me the perfect line on multiple targets.

[Steven Cline]

The commands are the commands. If you don't know them, don't take the timer. There's the arbitrary 5 minutes following the WSB to ask questions.

I asked a gentleman running the timer to give it to someone else during a classifier not too long ago. He screwed up every line of it and it was rattling my concentration. Its a game of rules. Learn them or don't administrate them.

Rather blunt, but I mostly agree.

[George Jones]

I am not a big fan of "Do you understand...?". I consider it distracting to a shooter who has stepped into the box and is into his Zen preparation.

At a local match, if there is a new shooter coming up, I may chat with him before he gets into the box and assure he's got his act together.

At any match, once the shooter is in the starting location/box, it's only the range commands. He nows owns that spot and I consider anything I say outside of the range commands to be RO interference.

[lugnut]

I am not a big fan of "Do you understand...?". I consider it distracting to a shooter who has stepped into the box and is into his Zen preparation.

At a local match, if there is a new shooter coming up, I may chat with him before he gets into the box and assure he's got his act together.

At any match, once the shooter is in the starting location/box, it's only the range commands. He nows owns that spot and I consider anything I say outside of the range commands to be RO interference.

+1 But then again I took my RO class with you!

[gino_aki]

Perhaps the time to explain the commands to the new shooters is at their orientation, that the command "Make Ready" allows them to ask last minute questions in addition to actual loading, holstering, putting mags on the table, etc. And reinforced by the more experienced shooters in the squad so the newer shooter doesn't get the "deer in the headlights look" when he steps up to the line.

I think R.O.'s have to be sensitive to each shooter's needs...how else do you tell the difference between the zen master GM and the guy shooting his second match? And adjust your actual exercise of the commands accordingly? I'm sure we've all run into the shooters who want a minimum of distractions, just the commands, delivered loud enough for them to hear. We've also run people who want a bit of chit chat to get themselves comfortable. And people who need the timer held close to their muffs so they can hear the beep.

And a bit of a drift, for one post I read...I can see where constant reminders of "MUZZLE!" especially if unwarranted would be really annoying but I'd rather hear that than "STOP!" With stages being anything but straightforward aim downrange these days it's easy to get close when engagement angles run from 10 degrees to 170. Andy Hollar said he did that while running competitors while teaching my R.O. class and I've always thought it was a good idea.

[West Texas Granny]

So. Questions?

This is what I hear "does the shooter understand the COF". Does the shooter have any questions. Shooter can now take sight picture and load your weapon. I then here "is the shooter ready". I reply then a buzzer sounds and I do the 2A waltz with the occasional mike cutting in. At the end of the course of fire I hear " show me clear, close cylinder and holster weapon. With a semi I hear " show me clear, slide forward, trigger down and holster weapon.

So what does "make ready" mean?

I want to hear the RO say I can now load my weapon. I don't want to hear a command that means many things and gets added to and taken from on the whims of rules people.

As far as course description goes there are always going to be questions that come up. One I asked in a match this past week that required that the stop plate be shot from the prone position. So is that belly on the ground or can one shoot from ones side. Does it mean that the body must be within the box or can the legs be outside the box. Stage descriptions no matter how carefully written cannot cover every conceivable possibility. That's why " do you understand the COF should be mandatory and the shooter can confirm understanding of the COF or can get a clarification from the RO.

[Mark R]

So what does "make ready" mean?

"Make ready" means just that...get ready to shoot. Back in the days, the command was "Load and make ready". Only problem with that is sometimes we start with an unloaded gun on a table, or an unloaded gun in the holster. "Load" would not apply...so USPSA decided that "Make Ready" would cover all aspects of getting ready to start the stage. At least that's the way it was 'Splained' to me

[bbbean]

I want to hear the RO say I can now load my weapon. I don't want to hear a command that means many things and gets added to and taken from on the whims of rules people.

Nothing's been changed on a whim. The only problem (to the extent that there is a problem) is that many ROs and acting ROs don't adhere to the same set of commands. If ROs did a better job of sticking to the official commands, shooters wouldn't be confused. But the problem isn't that the folks at USPSA HQ are changing commands willy nilly.

And seriously, how many other things could "make ready" mean?

Like any other rule, the official range commands are very clearly laid out in the book, on the website, and in any RO class. And like any other rule, the onus is on the competitor to know the commands and what to do. If he's not sure, he can ask at any time.

[aztecdriver]

So. Questions?

This is what I hear "does the shooter understand the COF". Does the shooter have any questions. Shooter can now take sight picture and load your weapon. I then here "is the shooter ready". I reply then a buzzer sounds and I do the 2A waltz with the occasional mike cutting in. At the end of the course of fire I hear " show me clear, close cylinder and holster weapon. With a semi I hear " show me clear, slide forward, trigger down and holster weapon.

So what does "make ready" mean?

I want to hear the RO say I can now load my weapon. I don't want to hear a command that means many things and gets added to and taken from on the whims of rules people.

As far as course description goes there are always going to be questions that come up. One I asked in a match this past week that required that the stop plate be shot from the prone position. So is that belly on the ground or can one shoot from ones side. Does it mean that the body must be within the box or can the legs be outside the box. Stage descriptions no matter how carefully written cannot cover every conceivable possibility. That's why " do you understand the COF should be mandatory and the shooter can confirm understanding of the COF or can get a clarification from the RO.

Ahhh - I think Granny is pointing out a great point that we have been harping on for sometime. The commands are the commands, and should not be augmented or changed by situation. The description of what she is hearing vs. what she should be hearing is very evident.

In section 8.3 of the USPSA rule book http://www.uspsa.org/rules/2010HandgunRulesProof3web.pdf, titled Range Communication, starting on page 31, describes the commands and what is expected of each one. There is a distinct difference between "making ready" and understanding what needs to happen to become ready. If the start position is loaded and holstered, you understand the ready position, it's part of the course description,(and I'll talk about understanding the course in a second), so thus "make ready" covers sight pictures, loading the gun, holstering it and getting to the point that you are "ready" to hear the timer.

Understanding the course description comes from the course information and applies to how the stage is actually run. This is often an area that is remissly handled at local matches and sets bad precedent and understanding for people that have not seen it performed correctly. Here's a quote:

3.2.2 The Range Official in charge of a course of fire must read out the written stage briefing verbatim to each squad.

3.2.3 The Range Master may modify a written stage briefing at any time for reasons of clarity, consistency or safety (see Section 2.3).

3.2.4 After the written stage briefing has been read to competitors, and questions arising there from have been answered, competitors should be permitted to conduct an orderly inspection (“walkthrough”) of the course of fire. The duration of time for the inspection must be stipulated by the Range Officer, and it should be the same for all competitors. If the

course of fire includes moving targets or similar items, these should be demonstrated to all competitors for the same duration and frequency.

The time for question and answer is during the walkthrough, not before it is your turn to shoot the course - for a number of reasons.

1. Your question is a clarification to the course of fire - thus, if it's clarified for one, it should be clarified for all.

2. If something needs to be changed for clarification sake, it needs to approved by the RM - something that is not appropriate during the individual attempts at the COF.

3. From a shooters performance perspective, locking down these responses in the walkthrough and getting a solid plan is your best bet for making sure you know what is going prior to running it live. This is the surest way to destroy your plan - by thinking about changes right before doing it.

Introducing an opportunity for Q&A by making the "do you understand the course of fire" is not the right way, at a USPSA match, to handle gaining understanding of what is expected. It's assumed that everyone did what they needed to during the walkthrough, reading of the course description and Q&A prior to starting the COF for the squad. If a question comes up in your mind after that, just ask it when you walk to the line. There's no need for a command to be required or the RO to validate your understanding. If you are not being given the opportunity at your local matches to do the inspection and Q&A, that's another problem to be handled with the people running the match and/or squad. The rules are there to permit it, and you should be given the opportunity just like everyone else, local match or not.

To your specific examples, I'm a bit concerned because I've not seen the use of a stop plate at USPSA. That seems completely contrary to "freestyle" principals. There is more - requiring positioning is also contrary to USPSA, unless it's a specific type of course, so most often you won't see "required prone position", you'll see a port that you have to get to and how you get there and staying within the bounds of the course is up to you. A good question, though, would be, if I'm prone and my foot falls out of the fault lines around the port, am I faulting? That can be asked before the squad starts the stage - and should be - because that clarification is of value to each and every shooter on the squad - and the match for that matter.

We get a lot of cross-discipline shooters at different matches - and often that affects how people do things and use what commands. I've heard a bunch of different RO commands and those used to running people at IDPA or whatnot say stuff out of habit when running USPSA people at locals. This is a disservice to new USPSA people, because unless they read the rules or someone tells them what's right and what isn't - they go about not understanding the right way to do stuff. The reverse can be true- but I'm not involved there so I'll belay comment.

The important point to all of this if we are going to shoot USPSA, we do it to the rule book. Understanding of the COF comes during the walk through, not at the line. A question may be answered by the RO, but for the sake of having ONE rule book for all levels, national to local, it should not be a command as it is not on the range staff to validate that a shooter knows what they are doing. (ie., this is why we use questions for "IF you are finished, unload and show clear" and "if clear, hammer down.." as well as "Are you ready?", who am I as the RO to tell a shooter they are ready?) The only caveat to this is having a brand new shooter their first time at a match and it should be an aside to the hand off from a coach shooter to the RO to put the shooter at ease and let them focus on going through their first experience. If we don't do that, we risk having to put people through new shooters classes before shooting a match - and that would just be terrible for getting people out and doing this.

[hankfan79]

This what I use:

"If you have no questions, load and make ready"

"Nod when you are ready"

"Standby"

BEEP

Works good for me.

[outerlimits]

This what I use:

"If you have no questions, load and make ready"

"Nod when you are ready"

"Standby"

BEEP

Works good for me.

i can picture troy throwing up right now...

[spanky]

This what I use:

"If you have no questions, load and make ready"

"Nod when you are ready"

"Standby"

BEEP

Works good for me.

i can picture troy throwing up right now...

[aztecdriver]

This what I use:

"If you have no questions, load and make ready"

"Nod when you are ready"

"Standby"

BEEP

Works good for me.

i can picture troy throwing up right now...

I think I'm going to carry a bunch of cash with me and the next time I want a reshoot and I am given an incorrect command, I'm going to arb it. Completely contrary to my philosophy on performance of getting what you earned - but so is not following the rule book. I'll let the committee decide which is more important.

[CZinSC]

This what I use:

"If you have no questions, load and make ready"

"Nod when you are ready"

"Standby"

BEEP

Works good for me.

Just curious, what do you do when a competitor does not Nod? I ask, because i'm one of those. According the rules, the lack of a negative response to "Are you Ready?" indicates he fully understands. So I don't bother nodding, the rules say I don't have to, so I don't, my choice.

So my question to you is, when someone fails to nod, what do you do?

[Thomas H]

This what I use:

"If you have no questions, load and make ready"

"Nod when you are ready"

"Standby"

BEEP

Works good for me.

Why?

I assume you are talking about a USPSA match---so since you've been through the RO class (otherwise, you wouldn't be the RO for a shooter) why would you say the above?

Instead of doing it correctly?

It isn't any more clear than the correct commands, it requires actions of the shooter that it shouldn't, and it can actually be incorrect if the shooter isn't supposed to load the pistol. Give this set of commands to someone who doesn't have English as a first language (of which we have plenty in large matches) and you are going to give them problems.

So....why do you use these commands?

[Skydiver]

This what I use:

"If you have no questions, load and make ready"

"Nod when you are ready"

"Standby"

BEEP

Works good for me.

i can picture troy throwing up right now...

I think I'm going to carry a bunch of cash with me and the next time I want a reshoot and I am given an incorrect command, I'm going to arb it. Completely contrary to my philosophy on performance of getting what you earned - but so is not following the rule book. I'll let the committee decide which is more important.

Funny that you wrote that. Yesterday I offered a reshoot to a shooter because I screwed up the commands during a multi-string stage. After giving him the "If you are finished prepare for your next string", we walked down to the next fault line. After watching him settle down into the start position and not move I went directly to "Standby" and then "Beep" without asking "Are you ready?". He declined the reshoot and said no problem since he was ready anyway.

Edited March 14, 2011 by Skydiver

[hankfan79]

This what I use:

"If you have no questions, load and make ready"

"Nod when you are ready"

"Standby"

BEEP

Works good for me.

Why?

I assume you are talking about a USPSA match

Actually no. After further reading of this thread...wow.

Disregard all my post in this matter.

What if the shooter doesn't hear you? Happens alot to those that their hearing is not so great.

Edited March 14, 2011 by hankfan79

[John Heiter]

I stick to the approved range commands because I don't want to ever have someone go home because they heard me say something when they were expecting to hear "Make Ready". I've seen it happen a few times and it sucks both for the competitor and for the RO who knows they share some of the blame but can't do anything about it once the gun is out.

IMHO, the single MOST important thing about range commands is to remain consistent. I'd like to see a set of commands that could be used equally for new shooters and old veterans, Level I or Level III and looking at the responses to this thread so far it does not seem like we have that with our current commands. I'll stick to whatever USPSA says like it came down from TGO written on stone tablets, but if I ever got to vote on it I'd vote to change them.

Maybe it's the southern boy in me but barking "Make Ready" at someone with no preamble really bothers me. How many times has someone around you started talking and you didn't catch that they were talking to you until a few words into it. "If you understand the course of fire you may load and make ready" provides an obvious opportunity for questions without actually prompting for a response like "Are you ready" does, it clears up issues for anyone who may not understand that "Make Ready" also includes loading your gun, it gives you second to focus on what the RO is saying before the critical bit, and in general it's just a much nicer way of going about things. It does add maybe four seconds per shooter which in a big match could still add up to diddly but there you go.

[Thomas H]

I assume you are talking about a USPSA match

Actually no. After further reading of this thread...wow.

Disregard all my post in this matter.

What if the shooter doesn't hear you? Happens alot to those that their hearing is not so great.

Ah---not USPSA, that makes a difference. Say whatever you please...

If the shooter doesn't hear me, I say it again louder. And louder. If they continue to not hear me, they eventually look around at me wondering why I haven't said "make ready" yet, and we have a talk about what I need to do to make sure they receive the commands necessary.

[aztecdriver]

I stick to the approved range commands because I don't want to ever have someone go home because they heard me say something when they were expecting to hear "Make Ready". I've seen it happen a few times and it sucks both for the competitor and for the RO who knows they share some of the blame but can't do anything about it once the gun is out.

IMHO, the single MOST important thing about range commands is to remain consistent. I'd like to see a set of commands that could be used equally for new shooters and old veterans, Level I or Level III and looking at the responses to this thread so far it does not seem like we have that with our current commands. I'll stick to whatever USPSA says like it came down from TGO written on stone tablets, but if I ever got to vote on it I'd vote to change them.

Maybe it's the southern boy in me but barking "Make Ready" at someone with no preamble really bothers me. How many times has someone around you started talking and you didn't catch that they were talking to you until a few words into it. "If you understand the course of fire you may load and make ready" provides an obvious opportunity for questions without actually prompting for a response like "Are you ready" does, it clears up issues for anyone who may not understand that "Make Ready" also includes loading your gun, it gives you second to focus on what the RO is saying before the critical bit, and in general it's just a much nicer way of going about things. It does add maybe four seconds per shooter which in a big match could still add up to diddly but there you go.

This is why I 1) have them go close to last and 2) grab them by the shoulder after I've scored the previous shooter and while reset is going on to have a conversation so they know im not expecting them to do something - and they get put at ease. I still attest, there is no reason to change the commands - just how you handle working with new people in a Professional and Personable way will suffice. It's a one-on-one personal conversation "Hey, before we go do this - are you good with everything - just relax and be safe. Let's go.." There is no confusion, and it's not barking at them. Solved.

[John Heiter]

I stick to the approved range commands because I don't want to ever have someone go home because they heard me say something when they were expecting to hear "Make Ready". I've seen it happen a few times and it sucks both for the competitor and for the RO who knows they share some of the blame but can't do anything about it once the gun is out.

IMHO, the single MOST important thing about range commands is to remain consistent. I'd like to see a set of commands that could be used equally for new shooters and old veterans, Level I or Level III and looking at the responses to this thread so far it does not seem like we have that with our current commands. I'll stick to whatever USPSA says like it came down from TGO written on stone tablets, but if I ever got to vote on it I'd vote to change them.

Maybe it's the southern boy in me but barking "Make Ready" at someone with no preamble really bothers me. How many times has someone around you started talking and you didn't catch that they were talking to you until a few words into it. "If you understand the course of fire you may load and make ready" provides an obvious opportunity for questions without actually prompting for a response like "Are you ready" does, it clears up issues for anyone who may not understand that "Make Ready" also includes loading your gun, it gives you second to focus on what the RO is saying before the critical bit, and in general it's just a much nicer way of going about things. It does add maybe four seconds per shooter which in a big match could still add up to diddly but there you go.

This is why I 1) have them go close to last and 2) grab them by the shoulder after I've scored the previous shooter and while reset is going on to have a conversation so they know im not expecting them to do something - and they get put at ease. I still attest, there is no reason to change the commands - just how you handle working with new people in a Professional and Personable way will suffice. It's a one-on-one personal conversation "Hey, before we go do this - are you good with everything - just relax and be safe. Let's go.." There is no confusion, and it's not barking at them. Solved.

I'm assuming the "them" you're speaking of is new shooters. I'm really not just focusing on new shooters but any shooter. It sounds like you do a great job with your shooters and really care but I think you could avoid having to keep track of the next shooter, evaluating their skill level to determine if they need the talk or not, etc. by making a simple change. Not saying we have a horrible situation now with the current commands, just that I personally would like to see them tweaked.