Do you understand the course of fire

[A63111]

Could some more experienced ROs help me to understand where/why "Do you understand the course of fire" originated from and why some competitors feel it must be used as a range command.

I understand helping new shooters but some seemingly experienced ROs and shooters seem to use and expect this to be used as a range command.

Please help as I am confused and find no refernce to this in the rulebook or my notes from my RO class(Level 1).

Thanks

[Will_M]

From what I understand:

It used to be an official part of the commands, but has since been removed.

Some of the more "experienced" ROs have said it so many times it becomes automatic.

[MarkCO]

From what I understand:

It used to be an official part of the commands, but has since been removed.

Some of the more "experienced" ROs have said it so many times it becomes automatic.

Yep. I worked hard to break that habit, so it can be done.

Also, "Load and Make Ready" gets used even more. The official command is just "Make Ready"

[Strick]

Shoot both games and it gets even worse.

LAMR vs Make Ready

I see clear vs. if clear

Do you understand... vs. nothing

[JFlowers]

Personally, I think the "Do you understand/have questions" should be put back. I know I still use it more than I should. And the usual question is "Hands are where?"

The "If" in "If clear" often gets lost in trying to talk at the same speed the shooter snaps the hammer and holsters at.

[ima45dv8]

If it's a newer shooter or someone who just looks like they're on the edge of lost, I sometimes ask, "Do have any questions about the course of fire?" Once that is resolved, I give "Make Ready." Until MR is given, the CoF has not begun and asking if they have any questions is not prohibited.

I'm sure someone's going to say I shouldn't do that because they may be a foreign competitor and will mistake that question for MR. At most matches I attend I know who I'm shooting with long before that. Still, I don't do it at Level II's or above.

[TMC]

Personally, I think the "Do you understand/have questions" should be put back.

I don't. When you have 18 person squads for a club match and if you have to talk it over with every competitor it will be a long day. If a competitor has questions (other than hand position at the start) I'll direct him to the written course description and ask for the next shooter. Its the competitors responsibility to know what he/she is doing when they come to the line. I as the RO don't want to get into a argument after the stage when he/she has a poor performance and blames it on what I told him. We breed complacency when we crutch lazy people along.

At one club I frequent some of the older guys still say, "slide forward" at ULSC or at "Make-Ready" its "if the shooter doesn't have any questions you are clear to take a sight picture with an unloaded weapon and then load and make ready".

[Dan Hefta]

A lot of the guys and gals that I RO these days are double plugged and they can't hear a thing I say anyways. The only thing that I say to any competitor is Make Ready. If you say anything else they may think you said Make Ready and they will go home because the RO didn't follw procedure.

If clear? Instead of clear, pushes the responsibiltiy back to the shooter.

Another thing is, the time for asking questions about the stage should not be when you are supposed to be making ready. IMHO

Level 1 matches should be run just like Level 3 matches except for stage design issues. We need to prepare our shooters for big matches and run our local matches by the book.

[WDB]

I can work with either, prefer just the "make ready" command but don't mind the "do you,,,,,,,,,,,,," as long as your not constantly yelling muzzle at me or anyone else for that matter. That is another story.

[Pat Miles]

If it's a newer shooter or someone who just looks like they're on the edge of lost, I sometimes ask, "Do have any questions about the course of fire?" Once that is resolved, I give "Make Ready." Until MR is given, the CoF has not begun and asking if they have any questions is not prohibited.

+1

Pat

[Graham Smith]

I think that for some people, it sort of acts as a "OK, we are going to get started now." More subtle than a slap upside the head to get the shooters attention and less subtle than a cough or clearing your throat. This is also a two way street. I've had a few cases where an RO was distracted by something so I'm just standing there thinking about the COF, next thing I know I'm caught off guard with the "Make Ready" command.

I don't see the harm in it and rather like the idea. I'd prefer that it were still an official part of the commands.

[BritinUSA]

It seems kind of redundant to me; The RO reads the Written Stage Briefing at the end of which the RO asks if there are any questions. This is the moment to ask a question, not when you are on the line, but during the Stage Briefing where everyone can hear the question and answer.

[Lewiston]

I don't see a need for it. If they have questions about a stage they can always ask a fellow competitor. If it's a new shooter I would hope they would purposely be moved to the bottom of the roster so a more experienced shooter can take them under their wing and guide them. As a shooter, If I'm not entirely focused on the task at hand, I find the extraneous commands a distraction.

[wide45]

The Club Program Manual, which used to be given to new clubs, incorrectly presented "HAVE YOU READ AND UNDERSTOOD THE COURSE OF FIRE?" as the first command. As far as I can tell the Club Program Manual is no longer available for download, but the misinformation won't die.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3692

[larry cazes]

Personally, I think the "Do you understand/have questions" should be put back.

I don't. When you have 18 person squads for a club match and if you have to talk it over with every competitor it will be a long day. If a competitor has questions (other than hand position at the start) I'll direct him to the written course description and ask for the next shooter. Its the competitors responsibility to know what he/she is doing when they come to the line. I as the RO don't want to get into a argument after the stage when he/she has a poor performance and blames it on what I told him. We breed complacency when we crutch lazy people along.

At one club I frequent some of the older guys still say, "slide forward" at ULSC or at "Make-Ready" its "if the shooter doesn't have any questions you are clear to take a sight picture with an unloaded weapon and then load and make ready".

Not that there's EVER any disagreement about the interpretation of the WSB at the club you are referring to....

[sfchorn]

I start with "Make Ready."

Unless the competitor is going to clue me in that he/she is going to do something totally unexpected that might cause me to be waaaaay out of position (like downrange of the muzzle), I'd rather rather not get into a discussion. It moves the match along quicker, is more professional, and more importantly, is more consistent. Each competitor hears EXACTLY the same thing. Experienced competitors also come to the line already "in the zone". They don't want chitchat. They want to concentrate on the COF, not whatever I'm babbling about. They want the range commands verbatim. If they hear something unexpected, it can break their routine. And most of them DON'T like that.

I'm also not a big fan of a competitor telling me how he's going to shoot the course of fire, and then asking me "is that ok?" I respond with "I cannot coach you or give you advice. It is up to you to solve the shooting problem. Do you have a specific question about the course of fire or written stage briefing?"

Now if it's a new shooter, I provide all the help I can. A friendly and helpful RO can make the experience more enjoyable, and is more likely to bring the person back to the club.

I must admit to one deviation. At a match last summer, I had just given the make ready command when a yellowjacket stung me. Of course, I said something I won't repeat here. The competitor stopped dead in his tracks, looked at me and smiled, then said "Now I hope THAT wasn't an official range command!"

[AlamoShooter]

So far no one has complained at club events if I 'Educate them a bit' at some point during the day I will RO new shooters so I use that to let every one know that. You are not supposed to get in to the shooting Box / position if you have questions. IF the RO says "Make Ready" questions about the stage layout is inappropriate. Any chatter after the Make Ready could be considered a distraction.

Its almost as bad an RO that wants you to respond to the Are You Ready.

Give me a nod when you are ready

The Range Is Safe! = The Range is clear

I am guilty of all , but I am trying to learn

[Joe4d]

I may have found a loophole in the stage I plan to exploit, I might have to verify with the RO if it is ok or I might have to warn the RO if I am going in a different direction than he may expect. If this is the case I am not gonna ask before it's my turn to shoot. But I dont see a need for the "any questions" question. If I have one I'll ask. I kinda wonder about the , Are you ready? question, especially since their is no requirement for the shooter to answer. Maybe we could go from make ready. to Standby after an appropriate amount of time.

[scooterj]

I have had a few shooters ask if I was mad at them. When it was their turn to shoot and they were in the starting position, I said "Make Ready". They turned and looked at me and asked if they did something to piss me off. My response was "nope, Make Ready"

[spanky]

I never use it and don't really intend to.

[Seth]

The commands are the commands. If you don't know them, don't take the timer. There's the arbitrary 5 minutes following the WSB to ask questions.

I asked a gentleman running the timer to give it to someone else during a classifier not too long ago. He screwed up every line of it and it was rattling my concentration. Its a game of rules. Learn them or don't administrate them.

[whitedog]

Being new, I may ask a brief question at a monthly. I also like just "make ready", it's sort of calming to just do it. If that makes sense.

[coldchar]

I run the local level 1 USPSA match at my club.

When I took the RO class the instructor said everything happening on the stage could be handled by the basic commands.

When I took the CRO class the instructor said he recommended the Dou You Understand ... question on Level 1 courses.

My actions: By the time I psot and WSB & do the walk thru and ask at that time if there are any questions, they have had lots of opportunithy to ask questions..

Shooters who come in late and don't bother reading the WSB and come up to me and ask questions I answer, although with a level of irratation I try to keep to myself. Generally these are higher level shooters who are just being lazy.

I have enough problems just remembering the basic commands when things go weird let alone throwing in a command not required or necessary.

Jim G.

[ima45dv8]

Just to be clear, I don't ask every shooter that comes to the line if they have any questions. I use it rarely and only if they're new, or new enough to be rattled upon arrival. Like Jamie said, it's part of the service. I know the difference between a novice's nerves and an experienced shooter who's amped up. I don't necessarily treat them the same.

If you've been doing this for any amount of time, my first communication will be, "Make ready!"

[Nik Habicht]

I kinda wonder about the , Are you ready? question, especially since their is no requirement for the shooter to answer.

There is a requirement for the shooter to answer the question -- if the shooter isn't ready. I've had folks say "Not Ready" a time or two; I've used it on occasion....