Going prone

[Resjudicata]

How do you guys physically get to the ground? I've tried dropping to my knees and then going forward to a prone position. This does not seem ideal and it is definitely slow. I've seen guys squat directly down and with their weak hand down shoot their feet out behind them and just flop. Seems quicker but physically more difficult.

What do you guys do? Could you give us a step by step algorithm of how you go from hands up and vertical to both hands on the gun and horizontal? Please? Some of us need to start practicing getting to the ground quickly.

Chris

BTW, I searched for the word "prone" back to about '05 and didn't find the answer.

[Action Pistolero]

Kind of hard to explain in words. I suggest you get the video "Shooting Clean My Way" by Doug Koenig. I believe Brian has it in his store.

For safety reasons, the gun has to be horizonal by the time you start down. I start with my left foot forward. I draw the gun and bend my left knee. Put the weak hand towards the ground. Break your fall with the left hand and roll so that your right thigh hits the ground first. As you do this extend out towards the target with the gun. When you feel the right side hit the ground, aquire the grip with your left hand.

Like I said, hard to explain.

The key is practice, practice, practice. It has to be automatic. You can't be trying to run the sequence through your mind as you assume the start position. During my first Cup in 2000, I was standing there ready to shoot the plates and tried to think of the steps to go prone. I couldn't remember. I remember saying to myself, "the hell with it". As soon as the buzzer sounded I was on the ground shooting. Didn't have a clue how I got there. I never tried to think of how it is done again.

[gm iprod]

I am not exactly sprite, but I have the advantage of being closer to the ground than some. Not sure if it really is an advantage.

Anyways, I have buggered knees (very little cartilage). Too many contacts with the ground via a rapidly decelerating motorcycle. I originally learned to go prone the way I did because I was heavy and unfit and thought I needed to land as lightly as possible ie not throw myself at the ground.

I used to drop to both knees and then fall forward with weak hand extended to break the rest of the landing. This was not good for my knees. I finally landed up in the surgeons office and him explaining that I was to cease and desist from this unkind practice (to my knees) or he will put it right with the sharp instruments at his disposal.

I was pointed in the direction of a sport physio-therapist and bio-mechanist, she (who new nothing about shooting but lots about the body) redesigned the way I went prone. All she needed to know was the shape I was in and where I needed to be and that I had to stop bashing my knees.

I now use something similar to Kevin, but start by standing where I intend to place the handgun and work backwards two medium steps and slightly to my left. Left knee more damaged than right so I have less movement. I check that I am aligned to the mat and only look at target when the RO calls ready. I draw, lean forward, placing left hand on mat and then throw both feet rearward aggressively and then gun is placed on mat near or exactly at the chosen spot and rest of body "falls" into place. Move gun to exact location as this goes on. You should now be ready to look for dot and shoot.

Depending on your physical condition going prone at 15y on plates and or Practical is a tough call. Plates I do and Practical I now do not (see you were mostly right Kevin). I am just too slow lately. Funilly enough my plates is better for going prone and my practical is better for not at 15Y.

Prqactice lots. Get a Dillon mat (what they use atthe cup) and a timer. A video camera is very useful. Go to a couple of matches and see what others are doing right that you are doing wrong.

Confidence in you chosen method is the most important thing.

Edited February 20, 2011 by gm iprod

[Griz]

I am heavy and unfit and my knees are very prone to some kind of inflammation that the docs have not figured out yet...

Anyway, landing on my knees would leave me crippled for weeks, so I just dive forward to the matt. I land on my weak hand and the gun butt and absorb a lot of energy by flexing my toes. I think my knees are in contact with the ground at about the same time as my hands, but most of my weight is on my hands and toes, there is absolutely no impact on my knees.

The gravel that shoots out behind me helps dissipate some of the energy of the fall and makes the RO respect my "personal space".

It's not graceful and I waste a little time because I have to shove the gun forward from the landing position to the shooting position, but I get down pretty quickly for a lard-ass.

I can go prone at 15 yards and have plenty of time left, but I find it is not worth the effort.

Edited February 20, 2011 by Griz

[gunnut315]

I have been practicing going prone for this year. I can get down sort of ok but I am not able to get up with out something for support. Dr want to do my knee replacement but I have been told that after the replacment I will not be able to get up with out support.

[Action Pistolero]

Bring a 4 legged stool to support you while you get up. You are timed from the start signal to the stop signal. You are not timed getting up. Chuck Thomey has thrown out his back and still goes prone. He gets down fast but it's painful just to watch him get back up.

[gunnut315]

I might try that I have been using a chair at home

[gm iprod]

gunnut and Griz

Wear knee pads just in case, use support as Kevin suggests, I have seen quite a few guys recently take a stool with them and use it to hold the spare ammo so they don't have to bend too far for that. Jerry M uses a tool tray on his stool.

I know my knees do not hit the ground with any force. If you get knee replacements you will need the stool or stick to get up. Any strike on the knee for the first 5 years is very painful. A guy at one of the clubs I shoot at has had two knees and one hip done. He can move just not too brisk. He can't go prone, but at his age and his health I would be happy just to get out of bed in the morning. But he is still shooting.

[GlockerJeff]

As far as the distance to go prone, it may depend on your division also. My production gun with no mag well is very low especially at the closer distances and it is hard to get your head down far enough to see through the sites. I am told you cannot build up the pad on your mat in production. Maybe using a different position is an option?

[Resjudicata]

I shoot Metallic Division so I have an advantage over Production as I can have a taller magwell. But, it takes more time to aim for the X-ring so I am at a disadvantage against Open guns.

My goal is to be able to reliably go prone at the 25 and 50 yard positions on the Practical and at least the 25 yard line on the plates. (The 50 yard line on the Practical isn't really a problem but I want to utilize the prone position at 25 as well).

I just need to find the manner to go prone that works best for me. Then I need to practice it on the clock out at the range to make sure I can get it done fast enough to gain the benefit of the more stable shooting position.

Chris

[gm iprod]

They will prevent you from building a mound of gravel (under or off the mat) on which to place you gun.

You are allowed to clear gravel from under the mat.

You are allowed to put the gun down on the ground off the mat, you are allowed to reposition the mat to suit how you go prone. You can go prone off the mat and have you gun on the mat, as long as the firearm is not touching ground or mat forward of the line you are OK to do pretty much what you wish. I have seen guys turn the mat sideways across the range and still be inline with the range when prone.

You could in theory fold the mat in half or thirds giving a higher platform, all you are doing is making use of the equipment provided. I have never seen anyone do it, but I have never been told you can't.

[Resjudicata]

You could in theory fold the mat in half or thirds giving a higher platform, all you are doing is making use of the equipment provided. I have never seen anyone do it, but I have never been told you can't.

Well...that is an interesting idea. I may have to look at that even for my metallic gun. I would definitely try it if I were shooting production.

Chris

[Alan550]

They will prevent you from building a mound of gravel (under or off the mat) on which to place you gun.

You are allowed to clear gravel from under the mat.

You are allowed to put the gun down on the ground off the mat, you are allowed to reposition the mat to suit how you go prone. You can go prone off the mat and have you gun on the mat, as long as the firearm is not touching ground or mat forward of the line you are OK to do pretty much what you wish. I have seen guys turn the mat sideways across the range and still be inline with the range when prone.

You could in theory fold the mat in half or thirds giving a higher platform, all you are doing is making use of the equipment provided. I have never seen anyone do it, but I have never been told you can't.

Actually, that's not entirely correct, GM. The rules state under section 5.12 in the last sentence: "No portion of the shooter's body may rest upon or touch the ground in advance of the firing line." That means that with a prone pad that's high enough to keep you hands off the ground, you could legally put the gun butt on the ground in front of the firing line, so long as your hands don't touch! Can't see a real advantage to the 6-8" that you'd gain, but it "could" be done if one were so inclined.

Alan~^~

[Allan H]

Ok, I understand what Kevin and Richard have said and agree, but will try and explain a bit better.

1. Stand with most of your weight in left leg, which is slightly in front of right leg

2. Draw gun and get the muzzle well out in front and near parallel to ground

3 . Bend left leg and at the same time place left hand on mat and kick the right leg back.

4. left hand and right leg take your weight while the left leg is kicked backwards and the right hand and gun are placed in their final position

5. do not slide right arm as wife does not believe the explanation for the carpet burns.

6. finally, grunt like an unfit hog, and you should be pretty right from here.

7. grunting is optional if you are under 40 and fit.

[DWFAN]

Im not sure if this is what they are explaining, but if you want to see Doug, and Bruce do it.. start at about 1:10ish..

[gm iprod]

Alan,

Youre right about being forward of the line, I did not explain myself fully, I should ahve worded it more along the lines of what you said. Adding the proviso that as long as you are behind the line you are OK.

I am mainly interested in the powers that be take on folding the mat up. All you are doing is making use of the equipment.

Now for anyone out there that is trying to get hold of us down here. We are living up to the nickname the Assuies gave us of the Shakey Isles. My email service is down but I can connect to the internet and receive PM's through the forums. There has been some loss of life in Christchurch, about 480miles south. They have lost a bunch of building many are still trapped.

Telephone contact is sporadic in the South Island and Christchurch is 80% without power as at 6.00pm local. It could have been much worse, and may yet be so. There are a couple of forum members down that way and I have yet to get hold of anyone I know, but that is not unusual in this situation. I have no family nearby Christchurch so I know all mine are safe.

[Resjudicata]

Alan,

Youre right about being forward of the line, I did not explain myself fully, I should ahve worded it more along the lines of what you said. Adding the proviso that as long as you are behind the line you are OK.

I am mainly interested in the powers that be take on folding the mat up. All you are doing is making use of the equipment.

Now for anyone out there that is trying to get hold of us down here. We are living up to the nickname the Assuies gave us of the Shakey Isles. My email service is down but I can connect to the internet and receive PM's through the forums. There has been some loss of life in Christchurch, about 480miles south. They have lost a bunch of building many are still trapped.

Telephone contact is sporadic in the South Island and Christchurch is 80% without power as at 6.00pm local. It could have been much worse, and may yet be so. There are a couple of forum members down that way and I have yet to get hold of anyone I know, but that is not unusual in this situation. I have no family nearby Christchurch so I know all mine are safe.

I just saw this on the news. Glad to hear you and yours are okay. Hopefully those who are trapped are gotten out quick and okay.

Chris

[1911vm]

this helped me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubrA-YDO5fM

[gm iprod]

I like the shoot from a bus match. That looks fun. Not sure if I would lend him my pickup though.

[Spangler]

Now THIS guy has a job!!! Where do I sign up???

[1911vm]

It is funny how the grass is always greener on the other side. I was in a class that Todd was teaching and his words were “that if I new what I know now I would have taken up Golf.”

[Spangler]

Sorry, Back to the thread. I ordered Doug's CD and studied his prone technique in slow motion over and over. Practiced a BUNCH at home. Even video taped myslf to see how close I was...Yes, I'm anal retentive...I will say it helped a LOT. There have been several times I got down so fast I surprised myself and wasn't even ready to shoot (though may just be a testament to how slow I was before). Only been doing it for a few weeks so still buidling the muscle memory but am very happy with this style. I did learn that my 50+ year old belly apparently brings me to terminal velocity a lot faster than Doug's (maybe 30 at the time of the taping?). Sort of creates a thud on impact. Oh ya, and if you ARE over 50 I recommend taking a couple Tylenols before you go to bed the first day you try this. You'll be glad you did the next morning...just my .02

Edited March 1, 2011 by Spangler

[gm iprod]

I am 48, not inches before we start another war, gravity assistance is unwelcome. The guys that seem to hit the ground hard have a bit more of a wait (pun) before the shooting starts.

[Methuaelah]

Going prone? Think back to gym class in elementary school. Start out doing a 2 hand squat thrust. 2 Hands on the ground, kick your feet back and drop to the ground. After you've done a couple with 2 hands go back a do it again just putting your week hand on the ground and your strong hand forearm on the grond and kick back. Simple, just a squat Thrust with the gun in your hand. Kevin is right about having the gun all the way out of the holster befor you start down. Guys with a spair tire or a bad back may want to turn 20 degrees or so, to the target to be able to get low enough to see the sights on the gun.

[mpolans]

I start with a very wide stance with my knees bent so I'm already pretty low to the ground. At the signal, my stronghand goes on my gun and my weak hand parallels the motion on my weakside. I draw with my strong hand and extend the gun forward downrange. As the gun is extended downrange, I reach forward toward the mat and put my hand down (my weak hand is always behind the gun so I don't sweep myself). I use my weak hand to ease my torso on to my stomach/strongside, while at the same time sweeping/sliding my feet rearward.