ErikW Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 I must not have had enough coff-ay to keep the hamster awake before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 lol...he probably has posted it a couple dozen times, and I just caught they last couple. (It took me a 3-gun match with hf's around 3 for it to sink in.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 OK..."sink in" may be too strong a term for me. Back to the question... Knowing what you expected hit factor will be on a stage can be a good piece of information to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 (edited) I'm going to have to make a cheat sheet to stick on my guns like my rifle trajectory cheat sheet.... Hit Factor = Seconds Per Point 9 = .111 8 = .125 7 = .143 6 = .167 5 = .20 4 = .25 3 = .33 2 = .50 <staring at that for a while> That's it; I'm getting all Alphas on any stage factoring at 5 or less. Edited March 23, 2004 by Erik Warren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old shooter Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 This is still something that I am having a hard time getting. I just got in from a practice session, and had 3 groups of targets/steel shot from 3 different places. Total point available=80. On my first run, I tried to shoot smoothly, and get good hits. I had 79pts@11.66 sec for a HF of 6.775 The next run was about the same, but on the 3rd run I decided to shoot fast and only make sure the dot was in the center of the target, not exactly the A box. This run was 73 pts @ 9.92 for a HF of 7.35 So, I shot the next for "all A's" and had 79pts@11.38 and a HF of 6.94 I decided to try the speed again and had 75 pts@8.37 for a HF of 8.96. Now, this is where I am having a problem. The79 pt runs both felt like I was shooting good and in control. The 8.96 HF run felt a little out of control, like more was happening than I could process. I don't want to just hose a stage, or just shoot as fast as I can, I still want to shoot as fast as I can shoot an A. Am I overthinking all of this? I don't want to shoot a low score thinking that I had put together a good string when all along, I have the potential to shoot a much better score. The calculator part of this game is killing me.... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Hit Factor = Seconds Per Point9 = .111 8 = .125 7 = .143 6 = .167 5 = .20 4 = .25 3 = .33 2 = .50 <staring at that for a while> Still staring at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 I never thought of it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Now, this is where I am having a problem. The79 pt runs both felt like I was shooting good and in control. The 8.96 HF run felt a little out of control, like more was happening than I could process. I don't want to just hose a stage, or just shoot as fast as I can, I still want to shoot as fast as I can shoot an A. Am I overthinking all of this? I don't want to shoot a low score thinking that I had put together a good string when all along, I have the potential to shoot a much better score. The calculator part of this game is killing me.... Mike Ok I'll bite this. Maybe if you can shoot a bit "out-of-control" consistently, it'll be good for your score. The problem I'm having is that shooting on the ragged edge of still being in control leads to some high hit factors but at times costing several mikes. I think consistency in performance is what one should strive for even when it doesn't guarantee a win in every stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 When you get that feeling that too much is happening for you to process...that is precisely the time when you are expanding your capabilities and getting better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 mike, you established a "slow time/good score" run and a "fast time/poor score" run and their respective HFs. All you have to do is look at the 6.75 HF and ask yourself, can I get an A instead of that C by taking another .15 or less total time? And look at the 9.96 HF and say, can I get a bunch of As instead of the 7 Cs by taking another .77 or less total time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpeters8445 Posted March 24, 2004 Author Share Posted March 24, 2004 I'm glad I started this thread. This was the kind of information I was looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old shooter Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Eric. I must admit that I don't know if I can get an A instead of a C if I take aoubt .15 sec longer. I do think that .77 isn't enought time to change 7 C's into A's, but I might be wrong. Also, at this point, I would guess that you probably shoot a stage intuitly, and "just know" how fast/accurately to shoot. Is this true? I think the thought of "shooting all A's as fast as possible" is slowing me down by making me be "too" careful. mcoliver, Maybe I can be consistently be out of control, or at least near it. Throughout my practice session, I did have 1 D, and a lot of the C's were within and inch of being an A. I looking back, the highest HF was 7 points down out of 80 possible. I am not sure if this is in control or not. dpeters8445, I am glad you started this thread also, to me it seems as fundamentally important a skill as a good reload..... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Mike I don't really know if it is important or not. What has more relevance in how you are going to shoot the stage; what you have figured the HHF to be or how fast and how many points did the best guy in your Division and Class just run it. I personally think you can really overthink stages and even matches. I don't mean that you shouldn't analyze a stage to find the best way to shoot it, heck, we do that every time we go to a match. What I am saying is I don't think it yields any assistance to worry about the HHF. It may be very old fashioned, but the KISS principal still is applicable. Shooting is like golf, you can stand on the tee and have too many things going thru your mind. Same is true with shooting. You can stand in the box and be thinking about wayyy to many things B4 you LAMR. Perhaps that is one of the limiting things about the way I shoot, and it will keep me from getting the most from my matches; but if you are on your game (as you should be) go the the line confidently, clear your mind of any unneeded thoughts and let your body do what your mind tells it to do. The HHF will take care of itself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 I think the thought of "shooting all A's as fast as possible" is slowing me down by making me be "too" careful. That statement sounds like a contradiction. Can you do both? Perhaps you are "ensuring" A's as fast as possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 I believe the original quote may have been "shoot good points as fast as possible" HF is a tool that can help or it can hurt. Since it's a numerical, calculating sort of thing, it is something to consider before or after shooting a stage, not during. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old shooter Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Now, for me, that makes a lot more sense. If I go to the line thinking that I should shoot 90% of the points, I know that I will shoot much faster than going to the line thinking shoot all A's. HF is just something that I think about when getting ready to shoot after I have a plan, actually I don't think about HF, but how fast or careful I am going to shoot. You know, I think that it is finally making a little sense to me know. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 yeah, "Good Points" is variable based on the stage, targets and, going full-circle... wait for it... HF. Even TGO says he doesn't shoot for always-in-the-0-ring in IDPA beyond 15-20 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Perhaps you are "ensuring" A's as fast as possible? This question just turned on a 1kw light bulb in my head! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpeters8445 Posted March 25, 2004 Author Share Posted March 25, 2004 So, to sum it all up, basically, estimating your high hit factor should not dictate how you shoot a COF, your high hit factor estimation should dictate how many points are accectable which, in turn, dictates how much time that you spend on your sights. The more time you spend on your sights, the better your points should be. The less time you spend on your sights, you may not get as many points but you will have a faster time. So, your estimated high hit factor basically tells you what is more important, points or time. So, this should be very valuable information going into a stage, if you are good at estimating your high hit factor. Does this make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 In my thinking, estimating the hit factor allows you to decide what to do in case of a contingency. If everything goes right on a stage, I shoot as fast as I can shoot mostly As with only a few C hits, and no Ds. The difficulty of the shots dictates how fast I can go. Knowing the hit factor comes into play if I call a D or a miss, or if I flub a reload and need one more shot on the last target, or something like that. Almost always it's worth it to me to make up a miss, usually worth it to make up a D, and probably not worth it to make up a C unless it's a pretty low hit factor course and I realize I got a C and decide to make it up immediately. I shot what I thought was a hoser course but turned out not to be. It had several steel plates at about 10 yards, and required about 5 reloads for my low-cap production gun. I had to take an extra shot on a steel target, and it put me at slide lock with one shot to go on the head of a paper target at about 5 yards. I reloaded, and then didn't shoot because I thought it wouldn't be worth it. My hit factor wound up being about 4.5. Had I made it up with an A in less than 3 1/3 seconds, or with a B in less than 2.88 seconds, I would have come out ahead. Had I estimated that prior to running the course, I would have taken that shot, as the reload had gone smoothly. DD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I used to mess with hit factors before I shot, but later, quit completely, because I'm always planning to do the same thing. Today, the only time I'd consider hit factors before I shot would be if I was trying to decide if there was a target(s) with skipping. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NPSA 86-259 Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I'm just shooting for fun, what does it matter? To win I have to be 70 kg lighter, 20 years younger and 30 cm smaller. Untill now I have been the biggest man on a event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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