austex Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Just score between strings. Problem solved. Rule 6.1.1, only can be done if the course of fire specifies that scores and penalties are to be recorded and the targets taped between strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Put it in the stage briefing. We shoot string 1. Holster. We shoot string 2. Holster. etc. If you are running more than one shooter at a time on each string, you can't go down range. At 25yds and in you can see your hits anyway. If someone really wants to go look at hits, I might let them, but that is probably not going to make you a lot of friends. How would it help you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 "May offer" leaves it up to the RO, so under this rule it's never mandatory. Seeing your hits doesn't equal knowing your score. That's true, offerring the reshoot is optional from the RO's perspective. In this case it would seem the majority of people here (many, if not all, of whom I assume to be ROs) have agreed that a Stop command wouldn't be warranted and could be RO interference. What happens if you don't offer the shooter a reshoot and they want one? Do they take it up with the CRO/RM? As far as seeing your hits vs knowing your score, the rule says "prior to seeing either the time or the score". If we're talking about one string in a Standards CoF where you've probably only got a few targets downrange, wouldn't you consider seeing your targets pretty much knowing your score? It's not a 32 round field course. Or is the rule intended to just mean that the targets won't be scored prior to the RO offerring the reshoot and the competitor accepting or declining? Keep in mind that 8.6.4 does not apply, as it refers to "inadvertent," i.e. unplanned, interference.... "Stop" isn't inadvertent; it is a deliberate RO command. If given in error, reshoot..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Put it in the stage briefing. We shoot string 1. Holster. We shoot string 2. Holster. etc. If you are running more than one shooter at a time on each string, you can't go down range. At 25yds and in you can see your hits anyway. If someone really wants to go look at hits, I might let them, but that is probably not going to make you a lot of friends. How would it help you? The more I think about it, the more I become enamored of turning targets for standards-type stages.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhs Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 "May offer" leaves it up to the RO, so under this rule it's never mandatory. Seeing your hits doesn't equal knowing your score. That's true, offerring the reshoot is optional from the RO's perspective. In this case it would seem the majority of people here (many, if not all, of whom I assume to be ROs) have agreed that a Stop command wouldn't be warranted and could be RO interference. What happens if you don't offer the shooter a reshoot and they want one? Do they take it up with the CRO/RM? I think it would follow the standard RO-CRO-RM-committee chain. As far as seeing your hits vs knowing your score, the rule says "prior to seeing either the time or the score". If we're talking about one string in a Standards CoF where you've probably only got a few targets downrange, wouldn't you consider seeing your targets pretty much knowing your score? It's not a 32 round field course. Or is the rule intended to just mean that the targets won't be scored prior to the RO offerring the reshoot and the competitor accepting or declining? My interpretation would be that the competitor isn't allowed to see the scoresheet before deciding. Keep in mind that 8.6.4 does not apply, as it refers to "inadvertent," i.e. unplanned, interference.... "Stop" isn't inadvertent; it is a deliberate RO command. If given in error, reshoot..... In 8.6.4 "inadvertent" applies only to physical contact. The situation under discussion here would be "another external influence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Put it in the stage briefing. We shoot string 1. Holster. We shoot string 2. Holster. etc. If you are running more than one shooter at a time on each string, you can't go down range. At 25yds and in you can see your hits anyway. If someone really wants to go look at hits, I might let them, but that is probably not going to make you a lot of friends. How would it help you? The more I think about it, the more I become enamored of turning targets for standards-type stages.... How would that change anything? I can still go look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 How about this. Run it like at SS nationals. Have a couple shooters shooting it at the same time. If one shooter wants to go check targets before scoring they will be going down range of a hot shooter. Now what would you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 How about this. Run it like at SS nationals. Have a couple shooters shooting it at the same time. If one shooter wants to go check targets before scoring they will be going down range of a hot shooter. Now what would you do? Now that changes things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouSlide Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 These multiple string standards stages are normally run with multiple shooters (two or three) on a common firing line, each shooting at their set of targets in turn, then moving as a group down range with holstered hot guns under RO supervision. I think I figured I walked 13 miles over three days scoring one such stage at Area 4 2010. If somebody demanded to go downrange after the 50 yard string and you had no recourse as an RO under the rules to forbid it, it would require all to Unload and Show Clear and create another significant delay in a stage that, if not managed well, can become a time problem for a match. Curtis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 These multiple string standards stages are normally run with multiple shooters (two or three) on a common firing line, each shooting at their set of targets in turn, then moving as a group down range with holstered hot guns under RO supervision. I think I figured I walked 13 miles over three days scoring one such stage at Area 4 2010. If somebody demanded to go downrange after the 50 yard string and you had no recourse as an RO under the rules to forbid it, it would require all to Unload and Show Clear and create another significant delay in a stage that, if not managed well, can become a time problem for a match. Curtis Don't see how they could demand you to make 2-3 other shooters to ULSC just so they could go check targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 And the RO can't be "another external influence," since he is specifically mentioned in the rule..... The applicable rule here (for the reshoot) is 1.1.5, provided that the RO didn't have a valid reason for saying stop.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhs Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 And the RO can't be "another external influence," since he is specifically mentioned in the rule..... The RO is specifically mentioned in reference to inadvertent contact. That reference does not state or even imply a limit for the rule, it just gives an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouSlide Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 These multiple string standards stages are normally run with multiple shooters (two or three) on a common firing line, each shooting at their set of targets in turn, then moving as a group down range with holstered hot guns under RO supervision. I think I figured I walked 13 miles over three days scoring one such stage at Area 4 2010. If somebody demanded to go downrange after the 50 yard string and you had no recourse as an RO under the rules to forbid it, it would require all to Unload and Show Clear and create another significant delay in a stage that, if not managed well, can become a time problem for a match. Curtis Don't see how they could demand you to make 2-3 other shooters to ULSC just so they could go check targets. It would definitely be a problem, but I'm still a little fuzzy on how such a request could be refused, based on a specific rule in the rule book. Still looks like there is no specific rule that could be cited to prohibit it, but no specific rule a competitor could cite to show the prohibition is unjustified either, unless I've overlooked something in the discussion. I don't like grey areas, no matter how unlikely, that get brought up during a match. Now that we've let the cat out of the bag on this one, I'd be comfortable finding a more secure bag Curtis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelDown Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Just hand the shooter one of these and save the steps. http://www.outdoorgb.com/p/Chrome_Pocket_Telescope/?utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=directory&utm_content=USA¤cy=USD&country=USA&SelectedBundle=157642 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Just score between strings. Problem solved. Rule 6.1.1, only can be done if the course of fire specifies that scores and penalties are to be recorded and the targets taped between strings. True. My point was if this is going to be a "problem" I would just score and tape between strings. Then when someone complained about all the time, I would tell them why and how it all came about. As I have said many times before, about 98 percent of what is in the rulebook is because of what a shooter has done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedog Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Ok, noob question. Would someone really do this and is there a fairly valid reason to do so? I don't see any point in doing it. You shot what you shot and you can't change it. Am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Ok, noob question. Would someone really do this and is there a fairly valid reason to do so? I don't see any point in doing it. You shot what you shot and you can't change it. Am I missing something? You aren't missing anything. Odds are no one would do this. We tend to nit-pik the rules to death here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedog Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Thank you, I thought I was missing some pearl of wisdom. Interesting thread though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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