45 ACP - 200gr RN/Clays Data

[flyingfrog]

All,

I am new to reloading and have done several exhaustive searches for IPSC load data. I, after reading many posts and speaking to several friends, decided to try out 200gr RN over Clays. Looking through the reloading books and on the Hodgdons web site they have no 200gr RN data for Clays only 4.3 for SWC. Has anyone toyed with this combination before, I am sure you have, and would be willing to pass on some info. As this is my first foray into reloading, I would hate to create a load and be afraid to shoot it. From the information that I could come across I loaded up about 30 rounds with 200gr RN over 4.3, but I have not taken them to the range. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

[Carlos]

Welcome Flyingfrog! You are a good man for doing the research 1st; my load in my 1st year of USPSA was straight, plain old Clays under a 200 gr. PLATED round nose (you are talking about the copper electro plated RN?).

As you noticed from Hodgdon's data, it is not possible to make major with a 200 grain plated bullet and straight Clays using published limits. I used a charge (use at your own risk) of 4.5 grains of straight Clays under a WestCoast 200 RN loaded to 1.260"; this made new major out of a 5" STI Edge. I never had pressure problems of any sort. The STI had a ramped, fully supported barrel. Again, use at your own risk.

Keep up the questions! We are here to help. Regards, C.

[flyingfrog]

Carlos,

Thanks for the quick reply. I am actually using Precision (and I use the term loosely after weighing them) coated bullets. This again was on a recommendation. I have read good and bad things about the Precision rounds, but thought I would give them a shot. I had the same thought on the max load and not making Major. So that in fact terrified me to load 200 over 4.3 and be out of max load recommendations.

[Gun Geek]

Frog:

I'm using Masterblasters (www.masterblasters.com). They are similar in construction (coated lead core) to the Precision bullets.

I make USPSA major with 4.1gn of Clays (850fps) from a 5" Kimber. The requirement is 825fps (165000/200 = 825), I get about 850 +/- 15fps. Seems like you could bump it to 4.2 and be in good shape.

This may be a place where the coating helps. The manufacturers claim that the coating gives you about 50fps more from the same load. I haven't really tested it, but something about that figure keeps coming up in my anecdotal experince.

Also, seat the bullets out as long as you can. Trick will be making sure they don't drag in the magazine and that they will feed properly in the gun. Start with one too long to go in the mag, bump it down until it comforably fits. Make a few more and try feeding them. Keep going shorter untill they feed. This will be the max OAL your set-up (mag, gun, and bullet profile) can take. Then add powder and see if you can get the velocity you need.

Start at about 4.0 and work up to 4.3. Use a chrono and see what happens. I wouldn't just go fire those 4.3 dudes to start out. Load 10 at each weight. Fire and collect all the brass at each weight. Check for pressure signs before going to the next weight.

Hope this helps!

Geek

[Guest Larry Cazes]

It's much safer to load to major PF with 230 grain RN and clays. Even with 230 grain plated bullets you'll be loading quite a bit above SAAMI spec pressures so be careful and use a chronograph for load development. Clays is also reasonably temperature sensitive so be careful to chrono your loads at the temp you will be shooting them at. There are a lot of people who use clays in this application that won't agree with me but I feel that you can get very similiar performance from slower powders at safer pressures. I switched away from Clays about a year ago and haven't looked back..........

[MoNsTeR]

I used to use 3.8gr with a 230 and 4.2gr with a 200. May make major, may not, but a good place to start (metaphorically that is, your actual starting loads should be less as always). I use N310 now but if I couldn't get it I'd go back to Clays in a heartbeat.

[kevin c]

Just so I'm sure, are you talking 40 or 45?

200 grain Clays loads in 40 S&W can blow up guns quite nicely. I know, since I did it when I first started reloading.

Be very cautious in the 40. OAL's should be 1.200 or more in that range with Clays, and you need a fully supported bbl.

45, I don't know. I will defer to those who shoot the caliber.

[Merlin Orr]

For my 5" STI standard bushing barrel .45 I use the exact load that Gun Geek has published. 4.2 of Clays with the MasterBlaster 200 gr at 1.250. At 70 degrees it shows a pretty consistant 835 fps. My bullets average about 203 grs. I'm a skeered to use Clays in my .40...

[Trader]

This whole thread is tough to tell which caliber is being discussed, .40 or .45 ?

[TDean]

Good job Kevin, you guys really need to specify what cartridge you're reloading for.

[EricW]

Thanks Tom!

In fact, I'm going to lock this thread until FF PM's me or another moderator with the correct caliber. I try to never lock threads, but I'm doing it now to make a point: give all the necessary information when requesting or giving load data. We've been down this road before. And once again, I'm going to point out that Hodgdon doesn't list a load for Clays in 40 and that it ain't an accident.

The max load for 45ACP is 4.3gr for a 200gr bullet. I could make assumptions about what FF wants, but I'm not going to.

E

[EricW]

We're talking about 45 ACP, so this puppy's back open for biz.

[bigsaxdog]

my buddy had to go way over hogdon's data to make major w/ 200 gr. .45 in his revolver. had a really nasty sound to it, no way i was gonna shoot it in my new caspian. YMMV........... clay's w/ 230 gr. round nose' is the best recipe i know, and have experimented with everything i could think of to try to get a softer load.

[C Sims]

You all are scaring me! I shoot 200gr SWC's with Hodgon Clays in my Kimber .45 that make well over major and don't see any pressure signs.

Maybe I don't know what to look for, what would some pressure signs be?

Anybody got any pics of what the primer shouldn't look like?

[bigsaxdog]

clay's is real fast. fast stuff builds pressure quick when you get over the specified max loads. i use it for 230gr. .45 loads, and if you check the data, i think it's just listed from about 3.6 to 4.0 max, which is a pretty small window, so that should tell you something. check out the data for some other fast powders......... looking for pressure signs with primers is gonna vary by what kinda primers you use. CCI are pretty hard, winchester a bit less, and federals really soft, so it's misleading. my soft .357 loads flatten federal primers pretty good, so i don't think thats that great of an indication. real hard extraction and flattened primers might make one think some. all the powders work better when you load them to their high values, they burn better with pressure. i just choose the ones that give the closest to major velocities with their max data, which is what clay's does w/ 230gr. bullets. titegroup is closer for 200gr., and HP-38 for 185gr. the 230gr. clays loads feel the softest for me, though. might have more muzzle flip, i dunno. pretty hard to argue with........