Hoser crap...

[Ron Ankeny]

I have had it up to my eye balls with the all of the &.*!%$ hoser stages. All of that arm's length ballistic diarrhea is kinda fun, but gawd almighty enough is enough. A little clump of targets over here, another clump over there, hit factors out the ass, and you never need to align the sights or exercise decent fire control. The few fundamentals that D,C, and B shooters have managed to properly develop erode and it's just blasting at brown as fast as they can.

WTF? Can't IPSC shooters shoot straight enough to make a long or tight shot? Are we so caught up in driving the round count up in confined spaces that testing a variety of real shooting skills has gone down the toilet? Maybe that's why the hot shot (as in young and fast) B class shooters who showed up at some of the steel challenge matches I attended last year sucked canal water and they went away pissed off and embarrased as the M and GM shooters handed them their collective butts on a platter. Do folks think GM shooters got where they are by shooting groups the size of a basketball at 2 yards?

I better stop before I get banned. Before I go, this is my rant and the questions I posed are rhetorical, I don't need a reply. Anyone who agrees can join right in, but you hose mongers can go start your own little rant.

[Jeeper]

I couldnt agree more. I like a few hoser stages in a match but not all of them. Some matches now dont test accuracy at all. It is all about speed. I prefer the combo of both. It is funny to watch when there are targets out there a ways now to see how many mike's there are. It is really pathetic.

[Matthew_Mink]

Ron, come on down to Area 4. Hopefully that will be a repeat of last year. I don't remember more than 3 or 4 total targets that were about 5 feet away. The rest were out there. That was a shooting match for sure. Jeeper can back me up on that one.

[PaulW]

Ron.......dang it man, your giving away all the secrets!! Let'em think it's all about speed at knife fighting distances.

[shred]

Hosing is fun when you do it. Hitting something far off gives you a sense of accomplishment later on. Pick your poison.

[EricW]

Amen Brother Ron!

[schmitz]

I'm with you Ron,

just designed some courses with some targets/plates upto 30-35 meters for a classifier-match over here in the Netherlands.

DVC, Henny.

[BrianH]

Ron;

You probably remember the day when every big match (State Champ and up) had what was called a "Standard Exercise".

Pretty much extinct because nobody thought they were "fun"....

[schmitz]

Every match has to be "in balance"

DVC, Henny.

[j1b]

Ron

I am right there with you. Between hosing, and making a person do stupid shjt, it made me miss shooting a lot less. I hated how matches were going to hose fests! We'd go to a world shoot and there'd be 30 stages, only MAYBE 5 of which would be hose em' stages. I loved it!

It is the one attribute about IDPA that I like. Granted none of the shots are tough - but they force you to shoot well. In IDPA you have to get your points. I like the simplicity of the stages, and that it tests basic shooting skills.

Anyhow - my point . . . I am on the bandwagon with you. I don't care about round count, all I want is a good match. For me . . . I could do without any hoser stages - make em' all 15 yards and out!

JB

[TDean]

Whatever the stage designers throw at me, I'm going to shoot it as fast and accurate as I can. That means close stuff too. It apparently just doens't bug me for some reason.

I suppose that if our local matches were nothing but hoser stages I'd feel the same way. I like 'em....and I like the 50yd stuff too...as well as 13, 23, 96 and especially 30.5291yds.

[rhino]

Those who dislike hosing would probably like the courses of fire I like to design. I like to do fun things like make everything but the lower A zone hard cover on all the targets, then turn them sideways and throw in lots of no-shoots. Hehehe

I think if you don't like course design, one way to react is to design some courses that are more to your liking.

[George]

Hi Ron,

I so agree with that.

I have told the following story elsewhere here, but it still rankles me so here goes.

I had a few new shooter wannabee's with very well practiced draws and way too fast but way too cool re-holster techniques complain that the practice stage I had setup on our weekend new shooter practice day was "no fun to shoot" and they wanted something more "run-n-gun". Jeeezz! Not a one of these guys could drop a US popper at twelve yards with less than two (or three) rounds and a 15 yard full paper target that was available to them had a clean A zone after a number of runs. The whole thing became clear when I gave in to the whining and reset the stage so it was mostly a line of in-yo-face brown that could be engaged while moving fast. The girlfriends started setting up video cameras and after a couple passes were taped (most of the targets didn't need to be taped), they were gone (home to watch the tapes I guess)

I do like the ocassional hosefest array, and have to admit that I am no great shakes after about 35 yards, but dammit, ya oughta' be able to hit a US popper at 12 yards on demand (heck, 25 yards on demand). Is twelve yards too hard for steel folks? Howsabout getting that steel right up close too while were at it? Sheeesh! (Rhetorical Also)

My new policy now is to set up a classifier whenever I am king of the range (every six weeks on our rotation schedule). I run it right by the book and will brook no whining anymore

Thanks for the reminder about this peeve Ron.

[Ron Ankeny]

rhino:

I think maybe you hit on the problem. I design the majority of courses at home and I really try to reach a balance. I use a lot of black paint, no-shoots when appropriate, steel and paper in a mix, lots of props with targets available from more than one spot and I get to the range to set up while everyone else is still in bed. I toss in a few hoser stages myself, but I'll add a wrinkle or two and I make the target arrays appealing to the eye and innovative. I guess doing all of that makes me resent driving to another match to be faced by stage after stage of hosing. Fact is, the other clubs are probably short handed and I should offer to set up a bay or two.

[rhino]

Ron, you are a gentleman and a scholar!

If nothing else, you could share you designs with them and then let them set 'em up and run them at their clubs. They may be glad to have that one task removed from their burden!

I suspect that when a club has little variety in their courses of fire, that it might just reflect that the primary stage designer(s) is(are) running out of ideas!

We do need more old school standards, though. I know some people think it's bad to subject newbies to shooting at 50 yards (especially US Poppers!), but my first USPSA stage ever was a 50 yards, 3-position standards course and I loved it. I didn't get many hits, but I loved it!

At my original home club, we used to shoot poppers and us poppers at 50 yards frequently. It was frustrating to some, but it certainly demonstrates that trigger control is the key element in practical levels of marksmanship.

[Skywalker]

Ron, I can understand you point, this is why we have designed our Level III match like this.

I believe this is a well balanced match, but your opinion as experienced stage designer will be well accepted.

[EricW]

I shoot because I *enjoy* being challenged. Every miss is an opportunity to learn from and better myself. Reasonably challenging stages don't need to be "fixed."

(I'll spare everyone everything else I felt like saying.)

[j1b]

While I agree that designing stages for local matches is a good thing and can help fix issues at club level, I don't think its club level where the issues lie. Its when you go to a big match and 75% of the stages are hose fests that I start to worry.

On top of that, many utilize a club match to prepare for big matches. As big matches convert to hose fests club matches could potentially join in.

I shot at Pima Pistol Club in Tucson, we had no issues with balance or challenging stages - I Loved it!

JB

[Sterling White]

Ron... Most of the stage designs that I see at matches are revolver friendly. I have every bit of respect for wheel gunners but this is a speed game. One of my shooting friends is Rudi W.. His splits on up close and personal targets are truly amazing. One thing that I have learned from Rudi is that a person has to be prepared for anything....hoser stage or not!

What I hate....Friday and I'm still at work!

[TDean]

Ron, I didn't realize that this was in the HATE forum.

Rant away brother!

[schmitz]

R&R,

You're both right (track)

DVC, Henny.

[texasag93]

I completely agree about to many hoser stages. I design the stages for our local club. I try to keep it balenced to keep everyone happy. I personally don't like all the hosing. I prefer targets at any and all ranges to 50 yds. Just wish I could hit those long ones consistantly! TXAG

[Rufus The Bum]

Well I've always been of the opinion that your either part of the problem or part of the solution. The main problem we have in this sport is that there is the the same few people at almost every club setting the stages.

Poor stage design is either a product of people not knowing the rules or people who are just burnt out from setting stages year after year and could care less.

Maybe if YOUR club is full of hoser stages, perhaps they could use a little of your experience to make the stages "balanced."

I have no pitty for people who whine about poor stages at the club level because, I hate setting stages, but I do year after year, month after month because nobody else does. People show up at the start time and leave as soon as the match is done instead of helping out. I could name over 100 people in MY area who have never set stages, never helped tape, R.O. or tear down stages, they show up and bullshit until were ready to start then stand around and bullshit till it's time to go home.

If you allow poor stages to be built and shot, don't complain here, complain to your club Pres.

[John Dunn]

Rufus,

I hope none of that was directed at Ron. Not only does he do a crapload of work at his home club, I know he has packed up his club's steel challenge targets for matches in other cities, has offered to put on an intro to IPSC shoot here in Gillette, welded up all the target stands at his home club, etc. He is probably frustrated because he does put in the work to design a good stage, and other clubs aren't that committed.

Must be irritating to have a super accurate open gun, the ability to shoot miniscule groups at 50 yds due to all his PPC work, and then show up at a match and have all of the shots inside of 10 yds.

[Rufus The Bum]

Rons frustration is shared by many simply because it's hard enough to get people to set stages, so you really can't complain about people when they help. I do my best to at least offer to go over a stage and look for stuff like shoot-thrus, 8-9 rounds or less from any position etc....

I also offer to help correct anything and offer an "opinion" as to what the rulebook might say and a way we might fix a potential stage problem. You have to be diplomatic about it or people stop helping. It's a shame, but it's the truth.

I wasn't directing anything at Ron, rather stating that nobody should put up with crappy stages. Most small clubs I've shot at seem to be VERY liberal when it comes to the rulebook, but the large clubs tend to follow it more closely. IMHO