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minor 9x19 in 9x21 Witness


mpolans

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I recently got a nice tricked out Witness chambered in 9x21. However, for at least the next year, I cannot reload...this means no 9x19 or 9x21 major. I'm currently a student, and all my reloading gear is 1000 miles away and I don't have any place to set it up anyway. All I can shoot is the cheap Winchester white box and Wolf 9x19 stuff. I popped off a magazine full, and other than failures to eject from an overly stiff recoil spring, it worked and was pretty accurate.

In doing a search, I've read several things about this, including possible failures to fire, possible reduced accuracy, and possible barrel/chamber erosion.

Right now, the only thing really concerning me is the last one.

Why would the barrel/chamber be eroded?

How does this happen?

Will it still happen with 9x19 *minor* loads?

Assuming I never plan on shooting 9x21 ever again, does it matter?

Is it merely an accuracy issue, or is there a safety issue too?

How many rounds of 9x19 minor before this erosion starts happening?

If it helps matters, I've got a World Class Pistols Inc. barrel right now.

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Assuming I never plan on shooting 9x21 ever again, does it matter? 

If this is your aim, why not get a replacement barrel in 9x19?

It will solve most of your problems at once.

I bet on the long run shooting 9x19 rounds (even at Minor PF) will have negative effects on the extractor.

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Cost factors (cash-strapped student) are probably what is keeping mpolans from simply buying & having a 9x19 barrel fit.

I agree that the real wear is on the extractor since that is where every round of 9x19 will be "headspaced". If you don't mind the occasional jam & you are willing to keep an extra extractor/spring/ roll pin handy, this might just work until you graduate & they pay you the big bucks (but sadly, you will not have any time to shoot then).

As for chamber erosion with minor power factor 9x19 in a 9x21 chamber, if this were such a problem, wouldn't there be lots of warnings to never ever use 38 special in .357 magnum? Or to never ever use .22 short or long in a .22 LR chamber? Instead, lots of .38 (even hot .38) goes through .357 chambers with no problem besides excess residue ahead of the short case.

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Carlos hit the nail on the head. Can't afford to swap and fit a barrel right now, nor do I really have the tools and work space to do it.

Do you really thing I'll be breaking extractors? Why? The case should still just slide on to the breech face, underneath the extractor, shouldn't it?

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"Why" is because the only thing holding the case from disappearing down the chamber is the extractor. Everytime the firing pin hits all that force goes into the extractor. This is on top of the normal workload of an extractor ie. extracting!

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Mark: make sure you have an extra from EAA; the ones from CZ won't work as they are "small hole" & held in/ rotate on a smaller dia. solid pin. THe EAA rides on a larger dia. pin & they use a roll pin. Not sure it will break; its pretty tough stuff. As for springs, in a pinch an AK-47 extactor spring cut down will work in place of the EAA extractor spring.

There are better ways to do this like spend the $$$$. Since Mark does not have the $$$ right now, he needs workable options. I'd go for it; beats sitting at home & missing all the fun.

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"Why" is because the only thing holding the case from disappearing down the chamber is the extractor. Everytime the firing pin hits all that force goes into the extractor. This is on top of the normal workload of an extractor ie. extracting!

So if I understand this correctly, my Witness's extractor is going to break because of the force of a firing pin driven forward by an 17lb. mainspring, but has no problem when being forced to extract a case driven backward by a 170pf load?

It doesn't seem logical. Is there something I'm missing?

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Mark, I put over 1500 rounds of 9x19 through my STI 9x23 last year,"shouldnt have done it" but the gun worked 100% and no noticeable wear on extractor, plus accuracy with 9x23 loads the same now. Try it in your gun and see if it will run 100%. If it does do it and dont look back. B)

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So if I understand this correctly, my Witness's extractor is going to break because of the force of a firing pin driven forward by an 17lb. mainspring, but has no problem when being forced to extract a case driven backward by a 170pf load?

It doesn't seem logical. Is there something I'm missing?

In theory, the extractor doesn't do much, if any, pulling on the case while there's pressure in the system.. But, it does have to deal with the force of the case slapping into the ejector, so it's gotta be strong enough to take some whacks.

My guess is you'll see reliability problems before anything breaks. Extractors tend to fit a bit loosely front-to-back on the case rim because they don't normally need to precisely locate the case.

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Accuracy is going to be something you have to look at - it could get really bad, since none of your rounds will headspace properly.

However, you might get lucky and have the rounds chamber consistently and the primers ignite consistently, just off the extractor. I wouldn't put high hopes on that.

Like everyone says, the stress on the extractor will be extreme. Have spares on hand. As long as you're not spending too much on major matches and hotel rooms and all, your fun shooting might exceed your troubles with the ammo.

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