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After a long spell of nothing but jacketed bullets, I just loaded 1,000 Berry's 180gr (plated) and 2,000 Bear Creeks (500 200gr and the remainder 180gr) and I just have to say the BC 180s were total shite. Generally, I'm reluctant to speak ill of products and companies but the crappy BC 180s caused me so much grief I can't remain silent.

About 90% of the loaded rounds failed a SAAMI maximum chamber gauge. After pulling the bullets the cases passed the gauge easily. I had increased my crimp (after increasing the belling to seat the bullets without shaving lead) but most rounds hang up just before the case head makes it into the gauge. Measuring the bullets (with calipers, not a mic) shows many are .402" in diameter. I didn't have any trouble with the BC 200gr bullets. (Then again, I don't think I gauged them; I just shot them.) Thankfully, my gun will function with rounds that fail the gauge with a close margin.

What's really weird is the pulled bullets. They each have 2 nicks or grooves in the edges, 180 degrees from each other. It's not from the belled case mouth. Is it perhaps from the undersized (EGW die) case squeezing the oversized lead?

After loading the last of the BC 180s (actually, I threw the last of them in the trash in disgust) I reset my 650 for Montana Gold 180s. Ah, heaven. They drop in the gauge out of the seating station, before even being crimped.

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Thanks for all the replies. Since I first posted this topic on Black Bullets, I have had some time to try the black bullets from Precision Bullets.They have worked great. I have run 4000, 200 gr SAC from Precision and have found them to be very accurate, and minimal smoke with very little leading.( All chambered in a tight kart barrel ) I have a 50 count test package from master blaster I have yet to try.I'll let you know of the outcome. Regards, Capt.

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I would be interested to hear what kind of barrel life people are getting with coated bullets. I've have two friends who tried some moly coated bullets, I believe they were Rangers, and both barrels were ruined by them. One person with a Scheumann barrel shot 5k rounds threw his gun and the barrel looked like a shot gun, no chamber and no rifling. The second guy shoots a Para-Ordinance and its chamber and about an inch of rifling was gone. Seeing these two guns first hand has scared me away from trying any coated bullet.

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Orca, my 5+ year old gun has had mostly coated bullets through its STI bull barrel up until the last year or two when I went exclusively jacketed. It still has rifling, still makes Major, and still shoots accurately.

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Capt,

I use Precision's Moly Coats in both 40 and 45. And their worth the extra cost.

No Lube to mess things up.

No leading in the barrel

Less wear than jacketed.

I can't believe that the Moly alone is responsible for the wear in the cases cited.

There are many other variables in the manufacture of bullets that would also

cause damage. Not to mention gun care. Before I started using the Moly Coats, I

used an electronic bore cleaner to remove all the lead from my barrel.

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There are documented dangers associated with SOME moly coated bullets. Why the qualification? Because while moly has been associated with excessive wear, other shooters (like Eric W., B.J. Norris, and yours truly) have used polymer coated bullets that contain moly (i.e. the black bullet) in significant numbers without undue barrel wear. THe sites below (including USPSA sponsor Wil Schuemann) detail the BAD experiences with moly:

http://www.schuemann.com/

http://www.varmintal.com/arelo.htm#Moly_Coating

So why the difference? I suspect (but can't confirm) 3 things:

1)different types/grades/formulations of "moly"; the base chemical known as "moly" is molybdnum (an elemental metal) and the element sulpher. Beyond that, we do not know the proportion at which they are used, the other chemicals added to the "moly" or what other properties are possessed by the moly applied to bullets. These variables could explain the difference in barrel wear.

2) Wil's site above mentions specifically 416R stainless steel as susceptible to excessive wear. Perhaps standard high carbon and chromoly barrel steels are less affected by moly.

3) Moly contains sulpher. Barrel fouling cosists of powder and jacket fouling. Powder residue is generally anhydrous and hygroscopic - meaning is absorbs moisture from the air. If the powder residue also contains sulpher compounds (from the Moly), the result will be: water + sulpher compounds = sulfurous acid (NOT sulfuric). Add oxygen molecules to that & over time, you have sulfuric acid (battery acid). I believe this could cause barrel wear. The humidity in the area where a gun is used, alonmg with cleaning regimens, could make a difference in barrel wear associated with Moly.

The black bullets I used did not seem to harm my Glock 17 barrel. I would use them again. There was some smoke & I often shoot indoors so I pay the extra $$$ for jacketed bullets from Star and TMJs from Westcoast, Ranier, and Berrys, along with Speer's electroplated Gold dots.

Regards, C.

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What's really weird is the pulled bullets. They each have 2 nicks or grooves in the edges, 180 degrees from each other. It's not from the belled case mouth. Is it perhaps from the undersized (EGW die) case squeezing the oversized lead?

I sometimes find the same marks on the base of pulled cast bullets, and I don't (can't) have a EGW die on my SDB. It seems to happen much less if I am meticulous about placing the bullet directly upright in the case before seating. I'm guessing that if the bullet is canted even a bit, it gets forced into the case mouth with uneven pressure that mars the bullet heel as it scrapes by the mouth of the case, whether belled widely or not. Place the base of a cylinder into a slightly undersized ring (basically what we are doing in seating the bullet) and I think that it will just about always settle in a position where the contact points are about 180 degrees apart.

My guess, at least.

I've heard that you can beat the hell out of the nose of a handgun bullet w/o messing up accuracy nearly as much as minor damage to the heel. Another (theoretical) reason to go jacketed.

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Just shot some Berry's 180s immediately after some Bear Creek 180s. They are marginally more accurate (with N330). At least they don't keyhole.

I backed up to 40 yards and tried to shoot the plate rack and it was all but impossible with the Bear Creeks or the Berry's. Then I put in a mag with Montana Gold 180 FMJ over Clays, which is "inaccurate" and took the plate down with the first shot.

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