Help with choosing a Limited Gun

[the duck of death]

When I started, being the genius that I am, I didn't ask anyone and bought a Para P16 45 Limited. Shortly after shooting a few rounds I found out it was a disaster. Cost as much getting it to run as I paid for it. Now I have a $1600 Para in a useless caliber. SOOOOO I decided on a SVI in 40 that I ordered from Noel Alfero, after a 1 year wait it arrived and after slight gunsmithg turned into a fine gun. Then, having the attention span of a gnat, I decided to shoot IDPA/SSP and USPSA/PRODUCTION and bought a Glock23, low and behold 25,000 rounds later and after one malfunction this in the gun I carry and shoot in all matches.

Moral of all this nonsense is if I had it to do over I'd buy the cheap and reliable Glock.

[texasag93]

Duck of Death, since when is the 45 ACP a "useless caliber"? If I were shooting limited 10 I wouldn't shoot anything but 45. I have a P16 and until I tinkered with it(why I will never know?) I never had a malfunction of any kind in over two years of shooting matches. Why does everyone put down the P16? I love mine. I wouldn't mind having a S_I of some sort but my pocket book isn't that big. SOme day maybe I will have an S_I but I will always keep my P16 Limited. TXAG

[.40AET]

Is it hot in here, or is it just me? I went the way the duck of death went, but took an extra bad step. Bought a P-14, found out on my own that it isn't the optimal gun for limited. Sold the P14, at a loss, and bought a P-16. Shot that for a year and then had to have a S_I. Sold the P-16, at yet another loss, and ordered a SVI. I then waited 3 months, and have been happy as sh*t ever since. (Wow, you write that all down it sure sucks to read!!) Shoot what you have, reload a ton, and try to borrow someones blaster that you adore, and see if you like it. Or go my way and waste tons of money that you don't really have.

Good luck.

Not to bash Para, you can become a GM with one in all divisions.

[the duck of death]

Correction to my post: the Para is a P14 45 Limited not a P16. And I was shooting it in Limited--thus a useless caliber because the mag wouldn't hold as many as a P16.

[Kyle Norris]

Why does everyone put down the P16?

As a I love the way a Para shoots (steel frame) but hate the maintnace intensive POS gun that it is I will attempt to speak to this.

As mentioned earlier, my first "real" Limited gun was a P-16. This gun could shoot . I can still take it and lay in 1-2" groups at 25 yds off hand, with a stock barrel, bushing and extremely sloppy slide to frame fit. The gun recoils (for me) repeatably, softly, transitions well, settles quickly when coming into a box, ect. That said....

This thing broke more parts than I could stand. In fact, on pulling the gun out and playing with it last week, I broke the SECOND link in about 4-5k rounds. I was planning on shooting this gun in a match two days later (the next night the hammer hooks sheared off my single stack while dryfiring....bad week). I went through two extractors, God knows how many mag springs, different basepads, a factory thumbsafety, a slide stop, not to mention it loved to chew my shock buffs apart in about 500 rounds. All this happened in about 12k rounds. I was tweaking something (usually magazines, I couldn't keep the stock Para or STI for Para running no matter how much TLC I lavished on them) every week to get the gun to hopefully run for a 100 round local match. I finally said enough and bought an STI, which I promptly figured out I don't like nearly as much. If someone made a half decent Caspian 40 mag I can't tell you how tempted I'd be to put a Limited gun on that.

Now, however, in cohorts with gmshtr (thanks Phil) my Edge is headed to Keal Manufacturing for some major surgery. Will give a full report as soon as it gets back.

[Mistral404]

I started just a couple of years ago. I started with a BHP that I had already. I talked with everyone I could about their single stack .45. I read every review I could find. I ended up with a Trojan. For <$1000 this is a real shooter. I did a lot of work on it. Dawson fiber front sight. Replace the fire controls with C&S sear and hammer, SV trigger, disconnector, and spring. It just came back from STI where they replaced the barrel. STI/Chris give outstanding service.

I purchased an STI 5inch with an extended dust cover in .40. I am very very happy with it. But the gun was completed by Kodiak Precision. Kodiak is building me an SV now.

STIs guns can run pretty good out of the box and sometimes they need help to run. Brazos and Dawson do a great job of checking them out before sending them off.

However, I am sold on SV and Kodiak Precision. Don Golembieski's stuff is awesome. Go to TGO's website and check out what he has to say about Don.

If I remember correctly Brian, Robbie and Don go back a long ways. You might add him to your list of gunbuilders.

One suggestion, since it takes about 7-9 months to get a custom job out of them, you might put your order in after about 6 months of shooting, that way when your are ready for it, it will be done.

ps: allocate enough money for Beven to tune the mags with his springs, followers, and base pads.

[bigsaxdog]

i love sayin' this.........."It ain't the arrow, it's the Indian you gotta worry about!"

[Guest bulm5]

but havign a good reliable arrow helps

[gmshtr]

Kyle,

Your gun was sent off Thursday, with 3 other guns. They will probably all be back by the end of the month. I'll have to finish it once it comes in, but that's a day job. I'm looking forward to seeing it, too!

Phil

[Newbie]

Wow, it's been some time since I've checked this thread (due to work, etc. etc.) Thank you all very much for your wisdom. I shoot my 1st local USPSA match tomorrow and I'm so nervous I can't sleep, probably why I decided to check the thread I have my TGO all ready to go after going to the range yesterday. I shot 3/4" group at 25 feet and 1 1/4" at 75 feet by that's with no preasure. I purchased from Brian a Levitation belt, 5012 carbon fiber holster and 5 mag pouches.

Two questions, 1) what is a dust cover? I just saw that mentioned but was too lazy to search on the net for it

2) I did some loading on my Dillon 550 and tried the following, .45-185 gr FP Westcoast plated, CCI primer, Starline brass and Vihtavuori N310. I contacted Vihtavouri and they recommended 3.7gr - 4.6gr so I loaded up 15 of each grain up to 4.5 and everything up to 4.4 would NOT eject from the gun. I had to manually pull the slide back each and every time to make a shot. The 4.5 ejected every time but did not produce a slide lock (when the slide stay open after the last shot) and I didn't try any 4.6 loads. I changed the spring from a 18.5lb to 16.5lb before testing the above and yet all would not eject. Any ideas???? Shouldn't they eject in the lower ranges??? If I have to load them that high I should just stay with factory ammo which is what I'm using tomorrow so I don't look like a fool

Well, after all this typing I am now tired and 6:30 comes early and I need to rest up for tomorrow morning shoot. Thanks again everyone and happy shooting

[texasag93]

Newbie, first good luck at your first match. If a "major laod" will not cycle your gun then a lighter recoil spring would be in order. 16lb. spring with shock buff is the norm. for me with 45 ACP. Dust cover is just in front of your trigger guard where your recoil spring sits in the frame. The STI Edge has a full length heavy dust cover. That is where you will here about a dust cover the most around here.

Good luck, hope your match goes well. TXAG

[Rufus The Bum]

Whatever division you choose to shoot, I offer this advice. Practice, Practice, Practice. Everytime I think I have the magical gun combination, someone comes along and proves me wrong. But if you want to shoot Limited 10, a TGO would be a really good gun. If you want to go full-blown limited, an STI or SV is the ONLY way to go, hands down.

Don't worry about fancy-shmancy options like Hard Chrome, Tri-Glide, Recoil Masters, Tungsten magwells etc... Keep it simple and you will go far.

[.40AET]

I was tweaking something (usually magazines, I couldn't keep the stock Para or STI for Para running no matter how much TLC I lavished on them) every week to get the gun to hopefully run for a 100 round local match.

Kyle-Everyone that shot a Para swore by the stock springs and followers. I switched to Arredondo followers and springs and my gun ran like a scalded cat! Of course, I sold it and bought an SV because I got sick of fixing it. But the mags ran great.

[m.e.t.]

I have to agree with Spook. I have been shooting 1 1/2 years. I shot a single stack 45 for about a year. I shot the surrounding state matches and Area 5. This sport is the most addictive activity I have ever encountered. The key is to shoot as much as you can. Not what you are shooting. And don't forget to learn from your fellow shooters. I had my limited gun built this year. It will not make me a better shooter but the skills I learned shooting and competing will. Shoot safe and shoot straight.

[DogmaDog]

I run a 14 lb recoil spring, Wilson buff, and 17 lb mainspring in my Kimber single stack. I shoot 200 gr LSWCs over 4.6gr of WST to make right around 170 PF.

If your gun won't cycle with the lighter powder charges, switch to a lighter recoil spring. For my steel load to work (155 gr LSWCs with 4.4 gr WST), I need to drop down to a 10lb recoil spring.

Also, you will need to chronograph some loads in order to KNOW whether you make major or not. Find someone at your club who has one (if you don't), and do some testing.

Anyway, I hope you did well and enjoyed your match this weekend!

DD

[Newbie]

Thanks DD I will try a lighter spring and see how that goes. Thank you all for your help. I found the results on the USPSA website from yesterday's first match. Of 18 shooters in the Limited-10 I finished 6th which I thought was pretty good considering I'm new at this sport and let me tell you I had a BLAST. I wish I would have gotten into this sooner. Waiting for the next match will kill me!