Faster Trigger Finger?

[MAKE READY]

How do I train to get a faster trigger finger? Some guys just blaze a way supper fast, while I kind of struggle in this area.

[outerlimits]

the holy grail...and in 90% of the time, it doesn't matter, trust me.

[CHA-LEE]

Make Ready> A trick in shooting faster splits is to move your finger less distance. A lot of times when people try to shoot fast they row their trigger finger in and out excessively on distances and pressures. All of this extra movement kills a lot of time. If you pull the trigger back only as far as it needs to drop the hammer, then push your finger forward only as far as it takes to reset the trigger you will be able to shoot ultra fast without even trying to.

Don't think about trying to do things faster. But ALWAYS think of ways to do things SOONER.

[twikster]

That sort of depends upon the range to the target, distance between targets, and who you are shooting against, doesn't it? If you are at a big match, and the big boys are there, I'd say 50% of the time, speed of repeat hits matters a lot, if you are trying to run with the big dogs, anyway. If you are in C or D class, no it doesn't matter. If 10 good ol boys with Star 9x23's are behind Fred's barn, it doesn't matter, either. At ranges beyond 25 yds, it doesn't matter.

[G-ManBart]

It's really hard to say without knowing a few things. What level are you at now? What sort of split can you shoot on something like an open 10yd target and shoot Alphas?

Grip strength helps with fast splits because it allows you to have less tension in your strong hand, which makes it easier to move your trigger finger fast. When you see folks shoot really fast splits (while getting good hits), realize that normally it's the product of the shooter having a really solid grip, that makes the gun reset faster. In other words, it's not necessarily that they can move their trigger finger faster than you can, it's that they get the gun reset on target faster than you can. Shooting bill drills (six shots on a 7yd open target) can help...and it's an easy drill to set up. Sometimes when people try to just shoot two shots really fast, they get tense, and that won't work on a bill drill...you'll start to stutter and get trigger freeze, which will be very obvious. R,

[G-ManBart]

Make Ready> A trick in shooting faster splits is to move your finger less distance. A lot of times when people try to shoot fast they row their trigger finger in and out excessively on distances and pressures. All of this extra movement kills a lot of time. If you pull the trigger back only as far as it needs to drop the hammer, then push your finger forward only as far as it takes to reset the trigger you will be able to shoot ultra fast without even trying to.

Don't think about trying to do things faster. But ALWAYS think of ways to do things SOONER.

That's actually a path with a dead end

I've described the device we use at work to teach proper trigger press before in other threads, but it applies here as well. It's called a trigger graph, and has a pressure/movement sensor attached to the trigger, and it displays movement over time on a computer screen (and printout). I know they've put TGO and TJ on it...they didn't use the "reset" technique you describe, and both can shoot pretty amazing splits.

They've tested thousands of good/great shooters, and not one...ever, has been able to go from trigger break, to exactly the reset point. Most of the folks that said they use the reset technique were actually going almost all the way to full extension, then coming back to the reset point. A few didn't, but they all went well past the reset point, and never stopped at even remotely the same point two times in a row...zero repeatability. The other thing is, if you're trying to go to exactly the reset point (as you might when shooting bullseye), you're doing it slower than you would if you simply fully release the trigger. Yes, it's less distance, but you're doing it slower, so the total time spent is greater. The absolute fastest method shown was always to fully release the trigger, doesn't seem to matter if your finger comes off or not, then as quickly as possible, take up the slack to meet sear resistance, and start a new press.

I know, you won't believe it, but neither did any of the other people who have seen the actual proof of what they were doing, versus what they thought they were doing. They told me one guy was so ticked off that he walked off the range

Scroll down to the Trigger Pressure Trainer to see what it looks like:

http://www.dvorakinstruments.com/index.html

[Panic Flinch]

I hate to say it.....but individual motor skills apply here. Some people are just ninja fast...others just don't have the dexterity and motor skills. Its not fair...but its just life. Yes practice helps...but some people simply have a natural advantage. There are thousands of hand eye coordination games you can play...and you have seen those people that are lightning fast. And they leave you thinking..."But I have practiced that WAY more than they have...how come they are still faster"? If you want to stay satisfied...always try to beat your own personal best. Race yourself...then when you are in the rhelm of challenging the best, prepare to be devastated. Ha Ha. Just kidding...set and achieve your own personal goals and life is good. Parabellum

[Panic Flinch]

Well..I jsut realized I did not answer the question. Faster. Hmmm... Take the pistol you are attempting to bond with....along with a TON of ammo. Yes...I mean 2000 pounds. Go to the range with the simple goal of firing the weapon as fast as you can. You will find that after around 3 or 4 mags, your forearm and muscles related to pulling the trigger start to become fatigued. Your times will start to slow. Take a break...let the gun cool down, muscles recharge and do it again. Definately use a timer to check your splits. You can even do this close to the backstop (very close to be safe) and close your eyes while you shoot to "feel" and "self diagnose" how to increase your splits. Since we are all different, your techniques to accomplishing the goal of faster spits may be different than others. This by the way is the wellspring from which many arguments occur. I have seen so many people argue...when I've sat back and said in my mind...both of you are right. What works for one person may not work for another. But in any case...self diagnose and make changes a little at a time...experiment a little with technique and you WILL get faster.

Yes, this will cost a fortune.

Yes, people will look at you like you are nuts. So...you and one other person on the range for safety would be ideal conditions. No distractions.

Yes, folks will post and say...naaaa thats not gonna do anything to help.

Yes, I did not mention anything about accuracy. It was not a criteria.

Yes, think outside the box and push the envelope.

And...it is my humble opinion of ONE thing (within a litany of things) that can be done to increase your trigger speed.

Basically, I have stated...If you want to shoot faster...practice shooting fast.

Keep it simple and Enjoy...

[DyNo!]

Do some forearm exercises.

[MrBorland]

With a revolver, I was dry firing to an on-line metronome (to get, say .18sec splits, I'd double-time 168bpm).

It helped build trigger finger power and endurance, but seeing more and getting good hits becomes an issue before my trigger finger speed does. YMMV.

[benos]

Relax, and see and feel more.

be

[pjb45]

As usual, I agree with Bart's assessment.

Having watched TGO, Golem, Taran, Hanish,and a slew of other GMs; I notice their finger moves very fast after the shot breaks. Seems like TGO's finger flies off the trigger and he is back on it lickity split.

Remember most upper GMs have pushed a million rounds down range. So Panic's idea is not all that strange. If you have a .22 conversion unit, it might not run you as much as your centerfire rounds. The guys I notice that can really move their finger fast, practice the heck out of the technique. The downside is giving up a lot of points and crashing & burning on stages where accuracy rules.

I notice I take too much time on targets where I should just hammer them. I can run a sub 2 second Bill drill after a couple of runs. I am starting to listen more to what Seeklander advocates. Check out his new book.

[CHA-LEE]

G-ManBart> I realize that its virtually impossible to row your finger back only far enough to rest the trigger while shooting quickly (sub .15 splits). My point was that when most people "Try" to shoot fast they mash a 2lb trigger with 10lbs of force then row their finger back far enough to almost come out of the trigger guard. THIS is why they can't shoot fast consistently. Excess in both directions slows every thing down. Even if a shooter worked at only mashing the trigger with 5lbs of force and pulling their finger back off the trigger a few millimeters this would produce a SIGNIFICANT increase in trigger manipulation speed. Reducing the excess in either direction allows you to do everything sooner. Sooner = faster. The only way I am able to produce sub .10 sec splits is by focusing on doing everything sooner by NOT rowing my finger excessively in either direction.

[twikster]

The Bill Drill helps you learn to "get rolling', but including a draw in things just complicates the evaluation. If your draw and first hit takes .80 second, instead of .60 second, and your time overall is the same, then your other 5 shots were a lot faster, to make up for the .20 second slower draw and hit.

Edited December 10, 2010 by twikster

[38supPat]

Shooters that shoot uber fast splits and make it to the top of the sport are actually pretty rare. There are some, Taran, Jamie Craig, Mike Burrell spring to mind but most do not run nearly as fast as you might think. Looking at TGO's splits as listed in his Drillmaster scores most of his 3 to 7yd splits are in the .16 to .19 range and I think you'll find that realistically most top shooters are in this zone. There are a small number (see list above) who can run in the .10 to .13 range. To be honest I'd consider paying attention to the quality of the shot you are making, the splits will come as a result of relaxing, working on recoil control and paying attention to your sights more so than finger speed.

[Loves2Shoot]

SEE faster as trying to pull the trigger faster will slow you down. Watch for the sight entering the notch or the dot entering the centering of the screen and pull the trigger the instant it does. Since the slide cycles is .06 or so, with practice you can get really fast splits if you actually use your eyes to tell your finger to pull the trigger and can stay relaxed.

When I was learning to shoot, I tried to shoot fast splits and the ONLY thing that worked was acutally paying attention to the sights and being calm enough to react to them without thinking. My fastest string ever was .1-.11 splits for 10 rounds with a prototype gas operated open gun and they key was relaxed and seeing every shot. It seems to me that the wiring from the eyes to the brain is pretty quick if you get your "thinking" out of the way.

[AWLAZS]

It is all about the seeing. If the gun is not back on target and you fire a fast second shot it could be a miss or no shoot. Once your mind knows what it needs to see before the trigger is pulled so you can do it without thinking about it your speed will pick up.

[Duane Thomas]

It seems to me that the wiring from the eyes to the brain is pretty quick if you get your "thinking" out of the way.

Excellently expressed.

[fudd]

Gentlemen, Gentlemen Thank you, Thank you all for answering the OPs post. You have just saved me hours and hours of wasted trigger reset practice that I was informed I should do.

If ever we meet the beer, coffee, CR, or my new favorite whiskey, Bullet(really spelled Bulliet) from Kentucky, or whatever is on me. Know remember I am an older than all of you so you will have to remind me.

Merry Christmas to all;

Jerry from Kali

[fudd]

Again not thinking straight because of the new info. The whiskey is spelled Bulleit.

[fudd]

Make Ready the above also applies to you for asking the question. What a timely question.

Thanks

Jerry

[fudd]

I am not trying to increase my post count, so do not count this one. It is just an old mans feeble mind starting to wonder. But want you all to know you will have to show ID's before I even buy you a cup of coffee, otherwise there is going to be 10 guys out there with the same moniker.

[Supermoto]

SEE faster as trying to pull the trigger faster will slow you down. Watch for the sight entering the notch or the dot entering the centering of the screen and pull the trigger the instant it does. Since the slide cycles is .06 or so, with practice you can get really fast splits if you actually use your eyes to tell your finger to pull the trigger and can stay relaxed.

I think this is an interesting point, I find that my splits on my make up shots are often faster than the first split. When my natural instinct is to make up a shot, it seem to happen a lot faster then when I am thinking about each shot, which is probably what caused me to have to make up the shot in the first place

I don't put to much weight on split times. I have seen people shoot some very impressive splits only to get killed on transitions

Edited December 12, 2010 by Supermoto

[G-ManBart]

SEE faster as trying to pull the trigger faster will slow you down. Watch for the sight entering the notch or the dot entering the centering of the screen and pull the trigger the instant it does. Since the slide cycles is .06 or so, with practice you can get really fast splits if you actually use your eyes to tell your finger to pull the trigger and can stay relaxed.

I think this is an interesting point, I find that my splits on my make up shots are often faster than the first split. When my natural instinct is to make up a shot, it seem to happen a lot faster then when I am thinking about each shot, which is probably what caused me to have to make up the shot in the first place

I don't put to much weight on split times. I have seen people shoot some very impressive splits only to get killed on transitions

That's a great point. Those makeup shots that just "happen" because you called the previous shot bad, are often super fast...it was vision based. R,

[Wild Gene]

You still have to have the right equipment to do these ultra fast splits.

I will use my '73 lever rifle as an example. I could not beat 4 seconds with 10 rounds on steel. I did a few mods to the rifle and knocked off .5 seconds. I sent it in to a well known smith, and got that down to under 3.5 seconds, but was still out running the rifle. I sent it off to another very respected shooter that did some additional timing work on the action and viola, I could do runs around 2 seconds. (between 2.4 and 2 seconds) After basically wearing out the pins in the rifle, I put another kit in my rifle, but the timing was just not right from that point on, and am now lucky to get three second runs again. I have all this logged and need to dig up my rifle log, but I think my best was about 1.98 seconds, the record is something like 1.73 seconds, I just can't imagine. That is screaming fast.

I never tried with the fast splits, they just happened, but it took lots of shooting to get there. If I tried to push this, I would basically lock up. The Bill Drills are sound advice, zero tension, a great start, but remember, in some cases, the equipment is a big factor.

Don't look at it others times as anything more than goals. Lots of sound advice in the previous post.

Good shooting.