TRG65 Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 I just ordered a new Bushmaster with a SS 24" 1-9 twist barrel. Given I'm an accuracy nut when it comes to rifles I was going to be working on the load with that goal in mind. Any starting point or good loads with this twist barrel would be helpful. I'm was going to try the following bullets and powders I have on hand are listed below. I'm going to order my brass from Scharch (sp?) as 100% processed. And since I have several thousand WSR's for my handgun loads that was the primer of choice. Varget Benchmark N135 N140 4064 3031 RL-15 52 gr Sierra HPBT 53 gr Sierra Flat base HP 55 gr N. BT 60 gr Horn. V-Max 68 gr Horn. HPBT 69 gr N. HPBT 75 gr Horn. HPBT Thanks Seth Ritzman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 Varget & RL-15 are probably gonna give you great results because they fill the case better than spherical powders. But AA-2520 also gets good accuracy in .223. WW748 is also known as a good .223 powder. My suggestion for a 1:9 bbl is to try the 68/69 gr projectiles over 24-25 grains of Varget at around 2.245" OAL. RL-15 is almost the same as Varget. If the 75 is gonna shoot at all in your 1:9 bbl, then it's gonna probably do the best over Varget or RL-15. 24.0 grains is a good choice for a 75-77gr at 2.250" OAL. A 52-55gr over 27-28 gr WW748 at 2.230" OAL is another known performer. Want more accuracy, try weighing your cases and tossing the ones that are way outa range. This will usually reduce flyers to almost zilch, and increase chrono consistency more than just about anything else you can do. -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 Use a neck sizing die (e.g., Lee collet) just to uniform the case necks which are dinged up in shipping and handling. While the math says about 69 gr is ideal for a 1:9 twist, you are going to have to experiment to find the most accurate bullet... it could be the 52 or the 75. W748 is a good powder for 223. Varget was good but wouldn't run in my Dillon powder measure. (One charge 25 gr, next charge 0 gr, next charge 50 gr ...) Other good powders I understand are N135, N140, RL-15, and 2520. Here's an awesome resource with tons of info: http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reloadba...asgunreload.cfm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g56 Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 I am just getting into reloading 223 for the AR-15, and I've been doing quite a bit of reading on it, one thing that has been quite noticeable is that for a 1:9 twist the max weight bullet has been about 69 grs, I've seen posts on various boards where the guys had great results up to 69 grs, anything over 70 grs the groups went south. The 75 gr bullets would probably be a good choice in a 1:8 twist barrel. The 75 gr might work great in your rifle, you don't know till you try, but don't be surprised if you see similar results to those I have mentioned. I built a AR-15A2 a few months ago, now the black rifle bug has bit and I'm wanting to build a AR-15 varmint! Great link Erik! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rishii Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 I've had good luck with a berger 55 flat base hollow point over 27 grains of W748, its shot well in every thing from a 1:7 to a 1:12 twist. also if you really what accuracy, get some norma brass, expensive but worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 The trick to getting Varget (extruded tubular type powder) to meter well from a Dillon measure is to not size at the same time to remove the force required from the upstroke. Then you basically slam the handle into the down stop position (shell plate all the way up), this shakes the measure enough to prevent the powder bridging that is causing the problem Erik is having. I use the Scharch 100% processed brass too! I size it on a RockChucker in a Dillon die, using Dillon lube anyway. This does several things for me. First, it prevents any case mouth irregularities as Erik mentioned. Second, it insures that headspace is good for my rifle (I have found the Scharch 100% a little tight in the base and long in the shoulder for my JP match chamber as is). Then each case is cleaned and checked in a drop gauge. Any that don't pass the drop gauge are dropped right into the trash. I was getting 10-15% of the 100% processed not passing my JP gauge before I started sizing them anyway. Now I get 1-2 out of a hundred that no-go. If your 1:9 shoots the 75's and 77's then you've got a good one. Some will, some won't. Most love the 68/69, but sometimes at different OAL, or with different powders. I have a 1:8 bbl that loves 77's and 55's but won't hold the 68-69's as tight as the 1:9 bbl upper that I have. Go figure. -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 A couple of points on brass as relates to accuracy. Charge weight and case capacity vary the pressure a lot. Control those and you are 90% of the way to fantastic accuracy. High price does not make uniform brass. The Norma & Lapua high ticket stuff is just as variable in weight (read internal volume here) as WW or LC (military). The high price cases usually have better case neck thickness uniformity and (sometimes, not always) exhibit better concentricity. This contributes to more uniform bullet release tension and initial bore entry and a minor increase in accuracy. The flash holes and primer pockets of the expensive stuff are usually just as ratty as new WW is though and another small increase in accuracy is gained by uniforming these on any brand case. I have seen offcenter flash holes on all brand of case, so always inspect and discard weird ones. The real truth here is that a batch of new WW, or 1x LC can be made to be as good, or better as any of the higher priced stuff with a small investment in tools and time. First, weigh and discard any past a reasonable range of end points, or segregate into batches of similar weight. The weight distribution within a batch/lot is usually a bell curve and I choose to throw away the ends so I don't need to think about it. At this point you can also roll some on a flat surface and see how concentric the neck and case walls are on average (if they are not, you will see it). This is the point to discard anything that looks odd too, weird colorations etc. Second, size uniformly and trim to equal length. 1.75" is perfect for trim to length. After trimming, use a very shallow inside reamer to bevel the inside of the case mouth, and use a de-burring tool to take any rim off the outsied of the case mouth. Some trimmers will do all of this as it trims. The next steps are needed to wring all of the accuracy out of a case, but are not necessary for IPSC rifle ammo. Flash hole, primer pocket uniforming and case neck reaming are the final steps required to bring standard OEM brass up to, or better than the accuracy level inherent in high priced brass. All of the local Master & High Master High Power Rifle shooters that I have gleaned loading info from process WW and FC brass to a good state and it is plenty accurate enough for them at a much more reasonable price in the long run. If the high ticket brass was actually able to shoot better (with or without extra prep), all of the top High Power shooters would be using it instead because these guys don't care much about what an extra x costs, they just want it if it can actually be had. After all the extra uniformity processing steps are done, you only need to resize and trim/de-burr each time you fire them to keep a batch of brass accurate for it's lifespan. It's all in case and charge uniformity as long as a quality projectile is used. Typically the most accurate load is a powder/case/bullet combo that allows the charge weight used to occupy all of the case volume under the bullet without being overpressure. The 24 grains of Varget/RE-15 under a 75/77 grain load is typically a tack driver because this is just shy of a compressed charge at 2.250" OAL. I have had poor luck with 748 under the 68/69 grainers because it is not a very full case load. 27-28gr of WW748 under a lighter bullet (55) at 2.220" OAL is a 4/5 full case of powder and it's a real tack driver in all of my rifles. -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 seth, Try the 68/69 gr stuff over 25 gr of Varget. I think you will find that it is what you are looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBF Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 The only powder you listed that I know well is Varget, should work very well under any of the bullets listed 52- 69 grains. I hear good things about Benchmark too, but have not tried it. Travis F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRG65 Posted March 1, 2004 Author Share Posted March 1, 2004 The 24-25 grains of Varget under a 69 grain bullet seems to be a common theme here as well as on the highpower board I look at. The best price I can find on Nosler or Sierra seems to be about $28/for 250 from Sinclair for the Nosler HPBT's. Is there anywhere to get better prices on the 69 HPBT's? What is considered a volume buy for rifle bullets? Thanks Seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 I just got 250 of the Nosler 69s from Midway at $25. Sierra 69s are often on sale for a little more. George says OKweber has good prices on Sierras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 $56/500 at OK Weber for the SMK 69. That is their everyday price and they are almost always in stock. http://www.okweber.com/bullets.asp?catid=8&subcat=17 For rifle bullets I would consider over 3k a volume buy. I have gotten good price breaks in the past by going in for 2 or 3k of a 10k plus bulk buy of SMK's put together by folks out of my local club. -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Olhasso Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 In my rifle (20" JP), I have found both the Hornady 68gr and Sierra 69gr will give 1/2 moa results. I have used both AA2520 and Varget with the 69gr with great results. With the 68gr, Varget is by FAR the best performer. I had horrible results with 2520 and the 68gr heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Awesome stuff guys. What bullet weight/powder would be good for a 1:10 bbl? I already know it likes 55g Sierra BT's & W748. How much heavier can I go? I really don't need extreme accuracy, I'm more curious about recoil and sight movement. I think I'll copy this thread to a file with my load data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 You may be able to go all the way up to 69 gr with 1:10, but you're at the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 What bullet weight/powder would be good for a 1:10 bbl? Hi John, The powders that I use in .223 with great results are WW748 up to 55 grain AA2520 60-80 grain Varget 68-80 grain I am sure Varget will work fine with lighter bullets, but I have found the easier metering of ball powders to be a plus when possible. Varget is worth the trouble under the heavies because it is so temperature stable (unlike AA2520). When I use light bullets and can get near a case full of a ball powder in under the bullet, then WW748 is preferred. Funny thing is, I only use Varget for feeding S69's and 77's to my JP for 3 gunnin' but use AA2520 under 77's and 80's for High Power. Go figure! AA2520 and Varget are indistinguishable on the target face so the only real difference is ease of metering and temperature stability. Here are some options in 60 - 64 grain projectiles. I don't have familiarity with any of these but the bulk winchester power point 64 grainers (last link) I got a plastic bag of 100 off a prize table and they shoot about 3/4 MOA in my Eagle 20" 1:9 over 24.0 of AA2520. If you can get good accuracy from a 55. then a 60-62 should stabilize too. At least one of these should fly well in a 1:10 http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/161227 http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/165935 http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/665185 http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/536318 http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/770779 http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/376464 http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/609136 http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/609031 -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paraman1 Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 If you go with a 68-69 grain projectile you may want to try the Ramshot TAC powder . This is the same powder Blackhills uses in their Remanufactured .223 69 grain ammo and worked wonderfully in my AR with a 1 in 10 twist as well as being fine enough to meter extremely well . The WW748 worked great with the 52 grain BTHP Sierra Matchking as well . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRG65 Posted March 3, 2004 Author Share Posted March 3, 2004 paraman1 I do have some TAC, because I had tried it in my 308. It never did very well. I had read an article that it needed a magnum primer to kick off well, but didn't get around to trying it. Have you tried TAC and if so what charge weight and primer are you using with TAC, I would be interested in finding something that likes it, so I can use up the pound I have. Seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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