ErikW Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 I'm trying to figure out how much 4895 (military surplus, not IMR or Hodgdon, but I'll take any input) to put under a Sierra 69 gr MatchKing in my 20" .223 Rem AR15. I've got a 55 gr FMJ load worked up.... should I start two grains under that? One gr? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 Erik, I would start with one grain less than the load listed in Hodgdon manual and work up .25gr at a time from there, never exceeding what Mr H suggests. Try Hodgdon Varget or Benchmark as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted February 28, 2004 Author Share Posted February 28, 2004 I didn't see a H4895 load for 69 gr. Already tried Varget. Gotta use what I got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 Sierra reccommend for H4895 to start with 22.6gr = 2400 and max out at 24.6 = 2700. Hodgdon say for a 70gr JSP to start on 23gr = 2782, max at 25gr = 2997. One difference is that the 69gr was shot in a 1:7 twist versus the 1:12 for the 70gr JSP. Hodgdon data more recent, and out of 4" more barrel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted February 29, 2004 Author Share Posted February 29, 2004 Darn, I was hoping for closer to 2900. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 Darn, I was hoping for closer to 2900 Hey Erik, you might not want that much V anyway. Check out this excerpt from something by Derrick Martin at Accuracy Speaks ---------- Reduced accuracy may result from driving bullets too fast, especially in 20" AR barrels. This may be due to bullet tip-off from the still-expanding propellant gas. I have actually disintegrated 69 grain match bullets by driving them too fast (estimated 3100-3200 FPS). The following velocities are recommended maximums for Sierra match bullets out of fast twist, 20" barreled AR's: All weights: 3000 FPS (due to bullet disintegration) 69 grain: 2800 FPS (due to gas tip-off effects) 77 grain: 2700 FPS (due to peak pressure and case volume limits) 80 grain: 2650 FPS (due to peak pressure) For the listed bullets, Sierra recommends the following velocity ranges for accuracy: 69 Grain: 2700-2800 FPS (for the long throat barrels, good accuracy has been observed at as low as 2600 FPS). 77 Grain: 2650-2700 FPS. 80 Grain: 2500-2550 FPS. ----------- I have found that 2625-2650 for 77's and 2700-2725 for the 69er in my JP is just fine. That's around 200 and 185 PF's respectively anyway. 2900 with the 69gr Sierra would be a 200 PF. Use the 77 at 2650 fps if you want that much PF in a .223 and you will be better off. -- Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 That hasn't been my experience at all!! I use a 69gr at 3000 out of my 20" 1/9 barrel no problem. 1" groups at 200yds. In my 24" varmint AR with a wilson 1/8 I get a nice comfortable 3150 and 1/2-3/4" at 200. The only thing that blowes up are the prairie dogs. YES these are VERY hot loads only two reloadings per case and the primer gets loose, but what the heck...it's just .223. KURTM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlocknSchpiel Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 Eric, I've been using the starting load of 26gr of 748 behing a 55gr Rem SPBT. I'm getting 2875fps and great accuracy from a 20" AR. No accuracy problems, or any problems for that matter. I also use 22.6 gr of 322 (else same) interchangeably with no problems. I haven't tried any other bullets because this load is 1" @100yd, and that's as good as I can get with iron sights. BTW, from what I've read, you don't NEED more than about 2700fps with the heavier bullets. Just a waste of powder to try and go faster. Later, Bert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 Kurt, Those are some way HOT loadings Yowza! I've pushed the S69 to 2900 fps before in my HBAR for High Power back when there was no other choice, but 3k from a 20". Man, that little suckers movin' out like most 55's do! I sure wouldn't want to shoot that round in 3gun competition. I'll bet it's a real face slapper with a JP tank brake I don't even want to talk about 3150 out of a 24" bbl, Jeez Dude!, You must be running JATO's on them little suckers Kids, do not try this at home! But seriously, that is the way to go varmintin' with bullets not meant for hunting, just push them way beyond their envelope and they will fragment nicely even if they are not a real hunting hollowpoint/softpoint. -- Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted March 1, 2004 Author Share Posted March 1, 2004 Glocknspiel, thanks, but in this topic I'm specifically looking for 4895 charges for a 69 HPBT. (H4895 will do even though it's a little faster.) The velocity mentioned is my W748 accuracy load and getting all dialed in with that trajectory. I guess I shouldn't assume 4895 will shoot the 69s as well at that velocity. kurtm, you must be using Varget or N540 to move a 69 out like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlocknSchpiel Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Erik, Just thought that you were trying for too much speed with the 69gr. I don't want to hear of any KB's. Sorry that I can't help with the req'd data. I only work with 748 and 322. Never needed to go anywhere else. Good luck, Bert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Hey Erik, If you are just looking for a known load for the S69, try starting at 25.0 of WW748 at 2.240" OAL. That was the old standard High Power load for .223 back in the day. I ran 26.5 for almost 2900 in a 1:7 20", but that was a pretty stiff loading that I used for 600 yards back then. 25.5 was always safe under any 68/69, and got me just under 2800 in my 1:9 20" before I went over to Varget for anything heavier than 55 grains. -- Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Kurt, a public admission about thebuse of the 69 grain bullet! I'm proud of you, man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 AA2460 is the powder I use. I did have a little trouble with a Krieger barrel, that was very tight in the throat department, but when I had JP run his reamer into it , no more problems. It isn't a face slapper at all, and I have shot litterally thousands of them out of my varmint rifle, even on very hot days, with no problems. I have never KABOOMED or even had a case come apart, never dropped a primer either. I have chronoed this load over 3 different chronos and it is 3000. You wouldn't believe how fast you can push a 69 out of ther 22-250s and Swifts, and even at these velocities (22-250-3400, Swift 3800) I have never had one go divergent in the least! Kelly: confesion is good for the soul! I feel better already . I never said I didn't have any use for 69s....I just said I didn't have a use for them in a 3-gun match Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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