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Excessive Pressure When Using Ranier 45acp Bullets


g56

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I see other people using the Ranier bullets with good results, and it makes me really curious what might cause this problem, so I thought I would call on this pool of knowledge to see if anyone might be able to diagnose this problem for me.

I bought a carton of Ranier plated 200 gr SWC for 45 acp, the recommended starting load listed in the Speer #12 was 5.6 gr of 231, so I loaded up a small quantity and took them to the range. Upon firing I looked at the fired cases and observed very obvious over pressure signs, the sharp crisp lettering on the cartridge case head was substantially flattened, the primers varied from being flattened and some were blown right out of the primer pockets, the pockets were expanded to the point the cases wouldn't even hold a primer. Since the load showed such extreme over pressure signs I broke the loads down and lowered the powder charge to 5 grains of 231, firing gave essentially the same results as before, I kept going down to 4.6 gr of 231, they still looked a bit hot, but at least they weren't blowing the primers out of some of them. I shot the balance of those bullets at the lighter 4.6 gr load, but I do have a few bullets left over, they are the Double struck bullets, and I have checked the diameter and they are the correct .451, the same measurement as other brands of jacketed bullets, so they weren't oversize.

The load listed in Speer #12 for 200 gr SWC and WW 231 powder starts at 5.6 gr and runs up to 6.3 gr. I am currently using the National Bullet 200 gr copperized SWC, loaded with 5 gr of 231 and that makes a real nice load. The pistol being used at that time was an AMT Government Model 1911.

:huh:

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I'd triple check the OAL, as Jack mentions.

I'd also do the press the round into the bench trick to see if the brass has enough tension on the bullet. Sound like you might be getting bullet set back.

(measure OAL, press round into the bench with your thumb, measure OAL again)

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I think it was probably an OAL problem, I don't have any of those (loaded rounds) left over but I measured my current loading, I haven't changed the bullet seating die so the OAL would be the same, I'm coming up with 1.248 OAL.

I hadn't changed the OAL because the AMT Government Model that I had was so picky on what it would feed, I had finally found a length that would feed most of the time on that pistol. I still have the AMT but I also have a Kimber Custom Target, it feeds everything I throw at it, it's a much nicer pistol to shoot!

Checking Ranier's website they tested at an OAL of 1.265, that information wasn't available to me at the time those were loaded.

That gives me something to try, I still have 25 of those left, so I'm going to load those up using the OAL listed on Ranier's website to see what happens.

Thanks for the help, that had been bugging me for a long time! :D

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It's been a while since I did a load with 231 but the last numbers I got were 5.4 gr with a West Coast 200 gr SWC at 1.244 gave a PF of about 163 with no pressure issues that I remember. When I finally got around to Rainier, I had run out of 231 and had been using N320. I did not notice any significant difference with Rainier or West Coast using 320. When I switched to a SWC from a RN, the research that I did on the web told me that 1.245 was about optimum in most peoples opinions. About 15000 rounds later in 2 different gun, I think they were correct. A longer round probably won't feed right. Like the other guys said, look at OAL, scale error, and are you sure the powder that you have is 231?. You may want to load one round at a time to eliminate the "set back" thing during your testing.

DVC,

Chuck

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The OAL is the only variable that would seem to fit, I adjusted that load several times, and it was always hot, I hadn't had that problem occur before, nor after that lot.

I took the same cases, the same primers, the same OAL, the same powder but the load raised from 4.6 gr to 5.0, the only change was a different bullet, the National Bullet copperized 200 gr SWC worked fine.

I went back to the 5.0 gr of 231 behind a lead SWC, that was the load I used before I got the Ranier, and the load I went back to when I ran out, well...I had a few left, but not enough to load a box of ammo.

I intend to load those last few using the current info from Ranier, I think the adjustment of the OAL should take care of the problem, if it does I can put Ranier bullets back on my "OK" list.

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DITTO...

To get that kind of pressure : either the bullet set back ( likely ), or you got ahold of a bad lot of powder ( unlikely ).

Do the " push test ", and measure the expander assy of your powder die.

Also see if chambering a round will make it shorter, a few .001 is not a big deal, more is ungood.

Travis F.

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Hi guys,

First post here. :D

I'm currently working up a load with Rainier 200gr P-SWC and I've been following the data on their website. So far I've only fired about 100 but do have some data to share - this is just my experience - use at your own risk :)

OAL 1.265"

W231 5.0gr

Avg. FPS 713.51

OAL 1.265"

W231 5.5gr

Avg. FPS 803.71

I haven't seen any overpressure signs and the 1.265" OAL has worked fine for me so far, but then again I haven't tried to fly through any mags yet. Maybe I'll have some chambering trouble then.

FWIW, the Speer #13 manual lists an OAL of 1.275" and starting charge of 5.6gr of W231 for their TMJ 200gr SWC.

Anyway, I'm curious to hear your final results, g56. If setback isn't the problem you may want to try out increasing the OAL.

Hope this helps,

jon

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I figured I would load a dummy to test for push back, if that isn't the problem I'll go with 5.0 gr of 231 at Ranier's recommended OAL of 1.265, and try them in both of my 1911's, the old AMT and the Kimber.

This was really bugging me, I've been loading for over 35 years, I generally go for midrange loads, and I had never had a problem like that before. :blink:

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Yesterday I made up a dummy round to set the seating depth and check for setback. I took the dummy and tried to push the bullet in against the bench, no setback occurred, then I took the dummy to check for function in the two 1911's, loaded into a magazine and cycled it through both pistols several times, a check for length after doing that did show a reduction in length from being chambered several times, so I did go back and dial in a bit more taper crimp.

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How much did it move ?

A few .001 is no big deal...

More crimp is probably not the solution to the setback problem, if that is what is happening.

.469 - .470 should be about right, measured at the very edge of the case.

Travis F.

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It shortened about .01, but that was after repeated chamberings, and you could see some deformation on the nose of the bullet, so I don't think it was any big deal, like I said it didn't budge at all when pushing hard on the bench.

The nose of the SWC bullet showed some deformation, it was probably trying to hang up on the feed ramp of the old AMT, it's pretty finiky about feeding SWC's.

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G56,

That amount of setback is probably OK with repeated chambering.

Call me stumped or confused, but the same load is OK with other bullets ?

Same brass ? Same OAL ?

The pressure you described is downright scary !

I have seen less in rifle loads I consider too F'N hot, and dissassembled.

Never seen anything close in 45acp, would expect a ruptured case long before the primers blow out.

I'm just tryin to figger dis out...

Travis F.

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I had 25 of those bullets from the original bunch, I loaded those up with 5 gr of 231 and loaded to the length currently recommended by Ranier, I finally got out today to do some testing, shot about half those thru the old AMT and the rest thru the Kimber, no pressure signs at all, the fired cases were in good condition, so it was the OAL after all.

Going back to the origin of this, when I got those bullets several years ago there was no loading information available specific to that bullet, so I used the same OAL that I had been using with the 200 gr SWC lead bullets. When I started shooting those I had some really outrageous over pressure signs, I dropped the charge back substantially but they were still pretty hot. That situation had been bugging me for years, so I posted the question to mine the accumulated knowledge of the board, and the board came thru with the answer, test loads made up, fired and with good results, everything is good! :D

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