Sv Short Dust Cover, Go Heavy Or Go Light

[BBQ]

Hi every one,

Me and my wife both purchuse new SV short dust cover limited guns( similar to the one posted by ironman in the Gallery Section). We have been experience some problems already. On her's, the ejector is dragging on the slide. Both, trigger bows are dragging on the metal frame part. One of experienced master class member of our club have fixed both problems. Lookes like " no gun will work right out of the box" are true some times.

Here comes the part that light me up. Before I even fire the first round on both guns, I took them apart to clean them frist. I found that on her gun where the guide rod contact the frame. That part of the frame have couple and random indentation mark of the from the guide rod(judging from the outline of indentation). Since we live in CA, that's the only one we can get.

Other than those minor problems, we are pretty happy about the toy's.

Now, here comes the tricky part. I found out that both gun flips quit a bit. We already have tungsten rod in them. What else can we do to cut the flips down? We used to shoot single stack 45 (Valtro), so controling recoil are not too big of a problems for us.

Majority of our club members are using tungsten barrel(go heavy), but recently I know one of our member's tungsten sleeve have been shot out from the front due to the threads of the barrel could not take the punishment.

Some other people in the nationl go with a lightened slide(light setup). But, one of our club member said that it flips even more.

One thing that I know is that by lowering the frame into my hand will definitly reduce muzzle flip. Just like lower down a car can reduce the roll due to lower center gravity( I came from auto-racing background).

Any one have any input about this topic. I need some help on go light or go heavy.

Here's our background if it help you guys analysis. We only learn how to shoot since last year late March(basic hand gun safty, shooting .22 pistol......). We have joined USPSA since last August and we have been shooting L-10 with .45 Valtro( two matches + four practice per month). Now we are class C in L-10, I am about 55% and she is about 45%, after the Special Classified Score posted. We are now moving on to Limited.

PS. We still love our Valtros. They are one of the best 45 on the market. If any of you have a chance to shoot one, go try it out. The club I shot at are one of the toughest club in the SF bay area. And I have places first one time and third two time so far with Valtros in L-10. The only thing we change are the recoil springs.

[EricW]

Mine had the same issue with the guide rod. For some bizzarre reason that frame dimension is wildly out of spec. I just turned the head of my guide rod down so it fit until I can get the frame fixed right.

The flip issue is a different animal. I like the light gun setup, but it takes some work to get used to. You're going to need to do timing drills to get the right grip pressure to return the gun. It's something that's not for everybody.

[warpspeed]

BBQ,

What recoil spring are you running? I have found that a heavy spring, like 18#, will flip more than a 12# with same load.

I highly recommend having the grip contured to fit your hand. Undercut on the grip to lower is just one part. Having the gun comfortably in you hand will allow better recoil control.

Good luck.

[BBQ]

EricW,

So, you mean that it take extra effort to drive the gun. Am I right?

[BBQ]

Warpspeed,

I am using 14 ISMI and she is using 12.5 ISMI. Both Under trigger guard have been grind down to our individual hands.

[Jasonub]

add some shock buffs. it will lessen the recoil effect. do you have a bull barrel? get one if you dont. load with a fast burning powder n320 is an example. use a light head 180 for a snappy feel. 200 for a sluggish feel.

if it does not work, get a smith to tig weld the dust cover and have a full one on it. Before this, you should really try a tungsten sleeved barrel. you can return it if the sleeve flies away.

[BBQ]

Thanks jasonub!

I am using 180grn WC bullet with titegroup (which feel lighter than N320) red and shock buff are being used. AET Bull barrel are in there too.

How much are the the weld on dust cover? what material are they made? Which gunsmith will do the work?

[EricW]

EricW,

So, you mean that it take extra effort to drive the gun. Am I right?

In a sense, yes. And in a sense, no. The lighter guns are a bit more lively. I'm just dialing into mine, so I don't know how to explain exactly what happens. You've just got to be willing to watch the front sight intently and burn some ammo in the process. Once you get it - it's like "duh, this how it always should have worked." The one "problem" with a lighter gun is that poor grip pressure balance and control will make the muzzle oscillate when you're shooting at speed. The extra mass on the slab-siders seems to dampen this effect out a bit.

Basically, the lighter weight your gun is, the more perfect your technique needs to be. There's no free lunch and that's the price you pay for snappier return.

[Jasonub]

also long load your 40. to 1.200 at least. In the philippines we have a lot of smiths that will tig weld dust covers, the market was para owners and similar pistols to get the svi sti look and weight where it matters.

Anyway, I dont have an idea if there are USA smiths that will do it. its a simple process but with your setup, it should not flip very much. the material we use here varies but its usually carbon steel.

If you want a more controllable gun, buy a steel mainspring housing and a tungsten magwell then if you still feel that recoil is heavy, then go with the tig weld.

BTW, what is your power factor? In the Phils we need 170 pf to make major. USPSA rules only 165 pf. load rounds to plus 5 pf to the rules you follow.

try the 200 grain heads for a push feeling like a 45 before doing any of the above expensive modifications.

Also practice will definitly help a lot as EricW explained in his post.

[Guest Larry Cazes]

BBQ, if you guys would like to, you can try out my heavy SV to get a feel for the difference before you do any mods to yours. We can get together at one of the richmond practices or at a local range during the week. Mine is an older SV with Full length dust cover, Tungsten rod, and 14lb spring. I am loading 180 grain WCs with WST powder. PM me if you'd like.

[BBQ]

Jasonub,

I am using 1.190-1.195 OAL and they are about 168 power factor. SS main spring housing and mag well are used as well. Good thinking though.

Larry,

Thanks for the offer. I have tried Alvin's Limcat (43oz on my scale) limited gun but it's too heavy (especially on the nose)for me. I will be sending both SV to Jardine later this week and I will be asking for opinions about this. We need some rest because we help set up stages two weekend in a roll.

[short_round]

Go Heavy or Go Home.

[tightloop]

You can go too heavy. You loose the recoil but the speed of your draw, transitions will be slower too. Also the physical thing; 25k draws with a 55oz gun is a ticket for tennis elbow or worse. Better to develop some technique than just depend on shear weight.

[EricW]

BBQ,

Why not pack up 1000 rounds, head to the range and give the gun a chance to succeed before you have the anvil welded to it? Also, $25 will get you a couple recoil springs and shock buffs which will allow you to do a considerable amount of tuning to the feel of the gun.

[BBQ]

Thanks EricW,

I have 2 set of the following springs 11, 12.5, 14, 15 and the factory for both guns. I have used 12.5, 14, 15 and the factory. I found that 14 is the best for me. I was running shock buff with all these spring set up. And my wife is using 12.5 and it's okay for her(she could not give me much feed back because she don't know).

Form all the replys so far, I think go light might be the way to go. You and tightloop does make a point. We have already practice more than 1000 round with our guns. That's why we raise this topic.

When I first got my racing licence, my mentor put 900lbs spring in the suspension of car to make the car rotate(good for the car, but bad for new driver). I was crying about the performance of it at the begining. After half a year, my skills mature a lot faster and I am able to go side by side with other 15-20yrs experience driver.

I think I should go with "learning how to drive", rather than set it up for my ability now. "JUST SHUT UP AND DRIVE" was what my mentor used to say. I don't think too many people can take that.

[ErikW]

You really shouldn't be getting more muzzle flip than out of your .45s.

The free and fast fix is to undercut the grip at the junction of the trigger guard, as warpspeed said.

A RecoilMaster might help the feel but you probably won't notice a reduction in flip.

A light spring and buffer didn't even help my backup gun shooting Minor 155 gr.

A tungsten barrel sleeve didn't even help my backup gun shooting Major 180 gr.

I suspect there is some unquantifiable aspect of the barrel lockup and linkage that affect muzzle flip and/or recoil.

You need to get more rounds through your guns to get more acquainted with them. .45 to .40 is a big difference in feel and recoil path. You might find a much lighter grip, less pressure, more neutral, helps more with the .40. At least experiment with different grip pressure to see how the gun reacts.

[Nemo]

BBQ,

You already have the guns. Shoot them... shoot them a lot. Play with your loads, your springs, shock-buffs or any othe gadget, but IMHO 1,000 rounds is not enough.

I use an STI Edge that had the dustcover shortened and the slide stirrup cuts made because I found it to be a bit too heavy for me. Now it is light and it may flip but I've learned to live with it. My splits haven't changed much but I can draw and index it faster (or maybe is just more comfortable).

Just let the pistol rise and come back on target. Don't fight the flip, let your new toy move. Float the gun (thanx BE).

[Flexmoney]

Do Burkett's timing drills.

[Jasonub]

also try a 17 and a 16 pound mainspring and a 12 pound recoil spring and see how it feels.

[mike4045]

I have a stock STI Edge. I have learned to control it. It is very heavy, but I don't feel it once the buzzer goes off. This weekend I will have the dustcover cut off and the slide dressed up. I can't tell that a gun is heavy unless I am practicing. When it's match time I don't think it matters. I will find out very soon if it will help. If it moves too much I will go back to 200 gr bullets to make it easier to control.

Mike

[BBQ]

Jasonub,

Do you know what are the stock mainspring rated at ?

mike4045,

"This weekend I will have the dustcover cut off and the slide dressed up."

Can you tell me the reason why you wanted to cut the dust cover off?

Let us know what the difference are after you test it out.

Thanks guys! Keep it going!!!

Also, look at the "Travis's Caspian Limited 40" on the Gallery page. Notice The Grip Safty!!!!

[Jasonub]

stock spring is usually 20-22. I may be wrong but it wont go less than 20

[Jim in WA]

BBQ,

All last year I experimented with a .45 Springfield OP single stack in L-10. Bull barrel, FLGR (not tungsten), springs, trigger weight, loads, etc. In the end I learned this: load made a significant difference (lt vs. hvy bullet and slow vs. fast powder) in perceived recoil and flip, but the extra weight actually slowed recovery over a lighter gun. I had the gun up to 49 oz. and still it returned to target slower than a regular 1911, for me.

I believe that adding too much weight in front of the hands and anything to the reciprocating parts of the 1911 induces more flip. I noticed that a good portion of the movement was the gun dipping on slide return, even with 10 lb. springs. My slide has no front scallops but is not weighted additionally.

As many have said, trust the gun and work on tuning it with loads and springs to find what works. I also had most of my revelations after firing 4-5000 rds. through the gun with a constant setup. I just got an SVI short dust cover 40 limited gun and initially the muzzle flip seemed greater, but I've already noticed that even if it is the front sight settles back to POA faster than any of my single stacks. Hope this is useful,

Jim

[BBQ]

Hi Jim,

"I just got an SVI short dust cover 40 limited gun and initially the muzzle flip seemed greater, "

How do you over come the muzzle flip? Did you change your grip?

Can you share with us your gun and load setup in details?

"but I've already noticed that even if it is the front sight settles back to POA faster than any of my single stacks."

What do you think that does the trick here?

Finally, I found someone who is on the same boat!

[Jim in WA]

BBQ,

My SVI is a regular dustcover non-AET bull barrel in .40. The slide is standard profile with regular stirrup cuts and interchangeable breech face. I've got a 14# spring with steel 1 pc. FLGR. My initial load has been 4.8 gr. VV N320 w/Berry's 180 gr. PFN, 1.160" COL. Initial chrono'ing showed a 170 pf(in my gun).

First perception was the Infinity had more muzzle flip. This was shooting factory ammo and reloads lying around. Shooting off the bench during chrono'ing the flip also seemed more than what I was accustom to w/single stacks.

Next day at a local steel match I found that the gun just seemed to come right back to POA and my speed was limited only by how fast I wanted to press the trigger. The gun just floated and the major loads felt really soft. My times were some of my fastest in 2 yrs and I've never perceived a gun "working with me" like this, rather than fighting the flip.

I think all this is due to the overall lightness of the gun, not having too much weight out front, and the felt recoil impulse due to the polymer grip and custom ammo. My grip is firm/relaxed and the same or lighter than on my singlestack. The widebody seems to spread the recoil more. I feel I can move this gun much faster between targets.

I really suggest trusting your gun setup and putting rds. downrange. Powder and bullet wt. will definitely change the feel. I think the recoil and flip are perceived different, but not better/worse. These are my perceptions based on about 13K of .45 last year and only about 500 rds. of .40 in 2 wks. I'm happy so far, but there is a lot more to learn about these new hotrods we've got.

Jim