650 history?

[M-Bear]

How come I can't find anything on the history of the 650 press?

[dillon]

It was introduced in 1992. What do you want to know?

[rick t]

Holy cow I bought mine in 94. (I think) I thought they had been around long before I bought mine!

[M-Bear]

It was introduced in 1992. What do you want to know?

You can read the history up to the introduction of the 550 and there it ends.

Was it made from the ground up to be used with a case feeder?

[dillon]

Yes, the XL650 was designed from the ground up to have a case feeder

[Braxton1]

I know that the reason why it's an "XL" as opposed to the "RL" of their other centerfire reloaders is in homage to the designer, Xavier Gonzales, now of GSI Bulletfeeder fame.

[Foxbat]

Regardless of history, a wonderful machine, I consider is the best machine in Dillon line today and a great buy at its price. Have three of them in addition to the 1050.

[Jonathan Taliani]

Regardless of history, a wonderful machine, I consider is the best machine in Dillon line today and a great buy at its price. Have three of them in addition to the 1050.

+1. Dillon definitely did a great job in developing the 650.

[CiDirkona]

Regardless of history, a wonderful machine, I consider is the best machine in Dillon line today and a great buy at its price. Have three of them in addition to the 1050.

+1. Dillon definitely did a great job in developing the 650.

I want to know how the decision to go with the rotating plate of primers rather than a slider such as on the 550 and other presses? The lower speed makes sense, but why have unused fresh primers fall onto the ski jump when they could just go back under the stack to get used again?

[Bello]

Regardless of history, a wonderful machine, I consider is the best machine in Dillon line today and a great buy at its price. Have three of them in addition to the 1050.

+1. Dillon definitely did a great job in developing the 650.

I want to know how the decision to go with the rotating plate of primers rather than a slider such as on the 550 and other presses? The lower speed makes sense, but why have unused fresh primers fall onto the ski jump when they could just go back under the stack to get used again?

Maybe its a safety thing for simplicity! if it would rotate back around while arm is full of primers kaboom. But to keep it simple with a flat rotation of the primer plate it just ejects into a little off ramp. If in actuality you wanted it to rotate back into commission there would most likely be more of an advance in moving parts in that department. But that is just my opinion

Edited November 25, 2010 by Bello

[Foxbat]

That is a very good question, because, at least on the surface, nothing would prevent the disc from making full circles, carrying the unused primers back to the loading position.

[CiDirkona]

Exactly, much the same way the 1050, 550 and Hornady LnL AP do, although angularly instead of linearly.

You wouldn't need any extra parts, you'd just need to have another set of holes or notches for the advancing arm to push against instead, and the leg on the advancing arm moved to match -- instead of the arm pushing on the actual primer hole (which never made sense to me either because you're now using a precision measured hole as a mechanical impact area...)

It wouldn't be too hard to make one that would work in there. You'd simply need to make a curved trough in the plate though for the live primers to slide down into, and then ramp back up into the hole after wards, but you'd have to make the floor low enough that the advancement arm doesn't strike the primers, but high enough that they simply don't fall out and still get pushed forward by the lower inside edge of the hole...

[Braxton1]

They had to make them fall out because the ratcheting pawl that advances the disc actually goes down inside the hole. If that hole was deep enough to allow the pawl to engage on top of a primer that was already in the hole, then it would be so deep that a new primer dropping in from the tube would go about halfway in and jam it up.

I already tried to re-engineer that back in 95 when I first got mine, as I hated that "ejecting live primers" thing, but I got caught up by this issue before I got too far along in the project.

[CiDirkona]

That's somewhat beside-the-point to the original engineering though -- to reverse engineering it's very relevant. The could have just as easily designed it so the advancing pawl hit a second hole/notch, rather than the primer hole itself -- but for some reason they didn't. What's the cost of drilling/machining another 20-something holes compared to ejecting live primers if you didn't need to?f

[rick t]

I like it just the way it is ! I look down and see a primer I know I have a case without one.

[rodell]

That's somewhat beside-the-point to the original engineering though -- to reverse engineering it's very relevant. The could have just as easily designed it so the advancing pawl hit a second hole/notch, rather than the primer hole itself -- but for some reason they didn't. What's the cost of drilling/machining another 20-something holes compared to ejecting live primers if you didn't need to?f

There's also the matter of the detent which also uses the same holes. In addition, there would need to be a carrier to keep the primer in place on the trip around.

I'm not sure it wouldn't be easier to try another geometry.

I don't believe it was about cost, it was just the way the design worked out. I doubt they started with the primer chute! Besides, in a engineer's world, there wouldn't be any unprimed cases!

[dillon]

"Besides, in a engineer's world, there wouldn't be any unprimed cases!"

[rodell]

Heard at the XL650 primer system design review.

"Ok, maybe someone forgets to put in a case and idly cycles the press."

"Why would they do that? Don't they have something else to do with their time?"

"It says not to do that in the manual, that's all we need to do. RTFM. If they can't read, tough ****."

"What if they run out of cases in the feeder?"

"Can't happen, users know better."

"So what if they drop a primer or two? There's a bunch of used ones hitting the floor, anyway."

"You know we can't charge more for this thing unless the primer delivery looks different from the SDB and the 550."

"We could paint it red? Or green?"

"You're fired."

"Easy fix, let's just hang a little chute on there. Then when the primers slide down people can watch them build up or dump them on the floor".

"Blue plastic?"

"We're out of duct tape."

"Ok. Done."

"Doesn't matter because it can never happen anyway."

"Lunch?"

Edited November 28, 2010 by rodell

[Boxerglocker]

Heard at the XL650 primer system design review.

"Ok, maybe someone forgets to put in a case and idly cycles the press."

"Why would they do that? Don't they have something else to do with their time?"

"It says not to do that in the manual, that's all we need to do. RTFM. If they can't read, tough ****."

"What if they run out of cases in the feeder?"

"Can't happen, users know better."

"So what if they drop a primer or two? There's a bunch of used ones hitting the floor, anyway."

"You know we can't charge more for this thing unless the primer delivery looks different from the SDB and the 550."

"We could paint it red? Or green?"

"You're fired."

"Easy fix, let's just hang a little chute on there. Then when the primers slide down people can watch them build up or dump them on the floor".

"Blue plastic?"

"We're out of duct tape."

"Ok. Done."

"Doesn't matter because it can never happen anyway."

"Lunch?"

Classic.... kinda sounds like here at my work

[MILDOTS]

I just push the handle up like I had a case in the shell holder, Pick up the primer put it in the automatic primer filler...........Problem solved

[Foxbat]

My solution to that problem is rather simple, and it keeps up to 10-12 primers there securely... more and they will start jumping, of course.

[Jim Watson]

When the 650 was new on the market, it was said that the rotary primer feed was a safety measure to prevent gang-fires what with all the added complexity of a case feeder and auto indexing. Which is strange because I have read of more gang-fires in 650s than all other models combined.