.223 Die seating height

[robert-1195]

Im buying a dillon 650 in the next few weeks, and have a few questions on reloading .223/5.56

I recently took a class at a local gun store, and was told that seating the dies too deep could crush the case shoulder, so the die should be seated so it touches the shell when the shell is fully raised in the reloader. But i just read another thread where a few members are telling another newb that to get a .223 to fit into the chamber of a variety of different AR platforms, that the dies should be turned a further 1/4 to 1/2 turn after the case touches the die, and that the RCBS small base x-die should be used.

Could someone please expand on this, and why i should or shouldnt make the extra 1/4 to 1/2 turn.

secondly, i think i recall something my drill sgt said during rifle training. i know the 5.56 is a .223 when converted, but if i recall correctly my sgt said the round uses a .224 bullet for proper fit in the barrel. Is this accurate?

thanks

[robert-1195]

before someone tells me , sorry, i posted this in the wrong section.

[Graham Smith]

The standard method of setting up a sizing die is to raise the shellplate all the way then screw down the die until it touches. To make sure that you are really full length sizing, it's often advised to then turn the die 1/4 turn more, which will cause the shell plate to "cam over" - that is, it stops just a hair short then the lever drops a fraction more.

As to crushing the shoulder, if you haven't properly lubed your cases, then you might, otherwise I'm not aware of any issues.

As to the small base die... AR15 barrels are chambered for either .223 or 5.56. The .223 is a civilian chamber and is just slightly "tighter" than a 5.56. There is also a .223 Wylde which is in between. If you know for sure that your barrel is chambered for .223, then you might (I repeat might) want a small base die, but most of the time a standard base die is adequate. Be aware that adequate lube with small base die is even more important (don't ask how I know this).

As to the bullet, yes, the bullets are actually .224 but very few calibers are actually exactly what they are named.

[robert-1195]

thanks, that answers it pretty well.

[kamikaze1a]

What Graham Smith posted is spot on... I'd like to add that IF you are seeing small dents on the shoulder of the case, you are applying too much lube. This would be very different from crushing the shoulder during bullet seating/crimping.

Also, if you will be reloading just for one chamber/rifle, you might want to customize your sizing to maximize case life. In other words, minimize the amount you "work" your brass. Sizing it back to original/factory specs would be ideal IF you are using the rounds in multiple rifles or possibly for the most feeding reliability. Sizing excessively could reduce the number of sizings you could get out of your brass due to work hardening of the brass.

To customize your sizing, you would size with some clearance between the die and shell holder, chamber the brass and if it does not go to battery, lower the die a bit, size and chamber again, repeat until it goes to battery. A fraction of a turn down on the die once it goes to battery is good insurance. I would not do this IF those reloads could be used for more than one rifle...

[robert-1195]

What Graham Smith posted is spot on... I'd like to add that IF you are seeing small dents on the shoulder of the case, you are applying too much lube. This would be very different from crushing the shoulder during bullet seating/crimping.

Also, if you will be reloading just for one chamber/rifle, you might want to customize your sizing to maximize case life. In other words, minimize the amount you "work" your brass. Sizing it back to original/factory specs would be ideal IF you are using the rounds in multiple rifles or possibly for the most feeding reliability. Sizing excessively could reduce the number of sizings you could get out of your brass due to work hardening of the brass.

To customize your sizing, you would size with some clearance between the die and shell holder, chamber the brass and if it does not go to battery, lower the die a bit, size and chamber again, repeat until it goes to battery. A fraction of a turn down on the die once it goes to battery is good insurance. I would not do this IF those reloads could be used for more than one rifle...

when youre saying customizing, youre talking about letting the round form to the chamber correct? and, this also improves accuracy, doesnt it?

and i will just be using the rounds in one rifle, so i appreciate the advice. thanks

Edited November 18, 2010 by robert-1195

[mpeltier]

Also, if you will be reloading just for one chamber/rifle, you might want to customize your sizing to maximize case life. In other words, minimize the amount you "work" your brass. Sizing it back to original/factory specs would be ideal IF you are using the rounds in multiple rifles or possibly for the most feeding reliability. Sizing excessively could reduce the number of sizings you could get out of your brass due to work hardening of the brass.

To customize your sizing, you would size with some clearance between the die and shell holder, chamber the brass and if it does not go to battery, lower the die a bit, size and chamber again, repeat until it goes to battery. A fraction of a turn down on the die once it goes to battery is good insurance. I would not do this IF those reloads could be used for more than one rifle...

I do not recomend you do this with a Dillon XL650. A single stage press it might be ok.It also depends on the source of the brass. If it was fired in a gun with a loose chamber (most mil surplus will fall into this catagorie) it would probably need full length resizing anyway. The reason for setting up the die for caming over is to take out the play in the rotating shell plate in order to achive full length resizing. If you do not do this, my experiance is that inconsistancies will develop that are not good.

Also a word of advise is to go a little slower than you would a pistol caliber. Especially I recomend a slight pause on the up stroke to allow time for the powder to drop. That .22 caliber hole in the case has to let a good deal of powder in, too fast of a cadence will make a mess.

[robert-1195]

Also, if you will be reloading just for one chamber/rifle, you might want to customize your sizing to maximize case life. In other words, minimize the amount you "work" your brass. Sizing it back to original/factory specs would be ideal IF you are using the rounds in multiple rifles or possibly for the most feeding reliability. Sizing excessively could reduce the number of sizings you could get out of your brass due to work hardening of the brass.

To customize your sizing, you would size with some clearance between the die and shell holder, chamber the brass and if it does not go to battery, lower the die a bit, size and chamber again, repeat until it goes to battery. A fraction of a turn down on the die once it goes to battery is good insurance. I would not do this IF those reloads could be used for more than one rifle...

I do not recomend you do this with a Dillon XL650. A single stage press it might be ok.It also depends on the source of the brass. If it was fired in a gun with a loose chamber (most mil surplus will fall into this catagorie) it would probably need full length resizing anyway. The reason for setting up the die for caming over is to take out the play in the rotating shell plate in order to achive full length resizing. If you do not do this, my experiance is that inconsistancies will develop that are not good.

Also a word of advise is to go a little slower than you would a pistol caliber. Especially I recomend a slight pause on the up stroke to allow time for the powder to drop. That .22 caliber hole in the case has to let a good deal of powder in, too fast of a cadence will make a mess.

If the .223 rifle rounds need to have the cadence of reloading slowed down to allow the powder to fully enter the casing, will a faster rhythm of reloading cause the rounds to receive a lesser charge than needed, or does it just dump powder after the stations move?

[mpeltier]

Also, if you will be reloading just for one chamber/rifle, you might want to customize your sizing to maximize case life. In other words, minimize the amount you "work" your brass. Sizing it back to original/factory specs would be ideal IF you are using the rounds in multiple rifles or possibly for the most feeding reliability. Sizing excessively could reduce the number of sizings you could get out of your brass due to work hardening of the brass.

To customize your sizing, you would size with some clearance between the die and shell holder, chamber the brass and if it does not go to battery, lower the die a bit, size and chamber again, repeat until it goes to battery. A fraction of a turn down on the die once it goes to battery is good insurance. I would not do this IF those reloads could be used for more than one rifle...

I do not recomend you do this with a Dillon XL650. A single stage press it might be ok.It also depends on the source of the brass. If it was fired in a gun with a loose chamber (most mil surplus will fall into this catagorie) it would probably need full length resizing anyway. The reason for setting up the die for caming over is to take out the play in the rotating shell plate in order to achive full length resizing. If you do not do this, my experiance is that inconsistancies will develop that are not good.

Also a word of advise is to go a little slower than you would a pistol caliber. Especially I recomend a slight pause on the up stroke to allow time for the powder to drop. That .22 caliber hole in the case has to let a good deal of powder in, too fast of a cadence will make a mess.

If the .223 rifle rounds need to have the cadence of reloading slowed down to allow the powder to fully enter the casing, will a faster rhythm of reloading cause the rounds to receive a lesser charge than needed, or does it just dump powder after the stations move?

Yes to the first part of the question. The powder that spills is part of what is supposed to be in the case of the shell in the powder dispensing station at the time of the spill. The powder charge bar dumps the complete charge into the die at the end of the up stroke, but it takes a few seconds for it to flow into the small hole in the case, if you come down with the case to soon the powder will flow around the case as you extract it and fall onto the shellplate. If you do that, it would be prudent to pull the affected case out of the machine, dump the powder out of it and put it aside for later.

[Graham Smith]

I think that the OP was referring to an AR15. Generally speaking, brass for a semi-auto is usually full length resized each time to ensure that it feeds correctly.

For a bolt action, when you are going to be reusing the same brass in the same gun, there are those that recommend only neck resizing the brass. I fully admit that I am far less familiar with this but it's often referred to as fire forming - you fire the brass so that it expands to the chamber shape and then you just re-size the neck. This can get so elaborate that people mark the cartridge to designate the position in the chamber and rotate the case one quarter turn each time it is fired. I suppose if I was shooting 1000yd bench rest I might start to think about things like adjusting the bullet setback to a gnats whisker off the lands, but life is too short for that.

[kamikaze1a]

What Graham Smith posted is spot on... I'd like to add that IF you are seeing small dents on the shoulder of the case, you are applying too much lube. This would be very different from crushing the shoulder during bullet seating/crimping.

Also, if you will be reloading just for one chamber/rifle, you might want to customize your sizing to maximize case life. In other words, minimize the amount you "work" your brass. Sizing it back to original/factory specs would be ideal IF you are using the rounds in multiple rifles or possibly for the most feeding reliability. Sizing excessively could reduce the number of sizings you could get out of your brass due to work hardening of the brass.

To customize your sizing, you would size with some clearance between the die and shell holder, chamber the brass and if it does not go to battery, lower the die a bit, size and chamber again, repeat until it goes to battery. A fraction of a turn down on the die once it goes to battery is good insurance. I would not do this IF those reloads could be used for more than one rifle...

when youre saying customizing, youre talking about letting the round form to the chamber correct? and, this also improves accuracy, doesnt it?

and i will just be using the rounds in one rifle, so i appreciate the advice. thanks

For me, sizing the minimum amount works out well. My die is set at .017 from touching the shell holder which gives me reliable feeding without excessive sizing and yes, I would say it gives more consistent grouping. But, I use a single stage press for all my rifle rounds.