Dang 38 Super Pistol...

[Aglifter]

Thought it was a problem w. the stock mag, but the 10 round Tripps still do the same thing. I've also tried 2 different batches of 38 super from AA. One w. MT JHP, the other w. some conical JHP.

The mags are very hard to load, and unload manually... It does seem to work when the mags only have a few rounds in them.

I'm going to pick up some Mec-Gar mags anyway, but as both the Para mag and the Tripp mags have the same nose down jam, I'm guessing its something to do w. the pistol.

Also, there seem to be some pretty deep ejector marks on the brass.

Any suggestions?

[Pat Miles]

What make gun are we working with? Has it ever chambered rounds correctly? OAL of round?

Pat

[Aglifter]

Its a Para SSP. Its a used gun, which looks like it was carried some, and shot a bit - not heavily, though. The internals look OK.

It chambers OK, when the mags have a few rounds in them. It has fired the stock mag OK, when loaded w. 8 rounds. The Tripp mags are problematic (and brand new), until there's about 7 rounds or so in it.

[oldtrooper]

Try a Metalform magazine. If it won't function properly I would think it's a gun problem. I have always had good results from these magazines. I had my first open gun built by Nowlin. It was a Caspian and we talked several times especially at the Cup when they would set up in the vendors area. When I asked John Nowlin senior which magazines I needed to get for that 38 super blaster he didn't hesitate and stated get Metalforms. He particularly mentioned getting the ones with the flat follower. It was his opinion that they were the best ones on the market.

I have used Metalforms exclusively in 38 Super open guns, and 38 Super single stacks for over 15 years now and they have never let me down.

[Aglifter]

I'll look at Metalforms - I might get some Mec-Gar mags to be made into "spiffy" mags (I need some w. a steel baseplate), but I do want to get some 10 round ones to work...

Could it be an extractor issue? If I hand cycle the slide slowly, I can get a jam w. the front of the round (or an empty shell) in the chamber, and the rear rim still below the extractor?

[Aglifter]

Any suggestion for flat or round followers? Both the Tripps and the Para have round followers.

[Bob DuBois]

Had to remove two coils from the Wilson mags in my 9mm Trojan. I would suggest taking the mags apart and cleaning them, looking for coil bind or stacking. Put a small bend up just under the follower nose. I've had some mags that that bend helped.

With the slide off, check the clearance between the ejector and the magazine. I've seen several hit, just remove a little off the bottom of the ejector if it hits. You'll need to remove the ejector to do this.

If nothing is bound and the mags are clean, not hitting the ejector, cut one coil from the bottom of the spring and check it.

I wouldn't remove more that two and do it one at a time.

Might check for a burr on the magazine release also.

New mags, load the up and let them sit for a day or so to let the springs set before cutting the springs.

[G-ManBart]

The Atlanta Arms ammo is pretty short for a conventional (non-2011) gun...or at least the last batch I shot was. I'd try some factory OAL (1.260" or so) Super and see how that works. R,

[hdgun]

My first SS was a Para in 38 super. I bought the gun second hand with a hand full of Metal form 38 super 10 round mags. the gun ran flawless with factory 38 super and hand loaded stuff. since, i have a couple SS guns in 9mm and still using the same mags. I will use no other mags.

[Aglifter]

If it had been tuned to run 38 Super Comp, would it cause this kind of jam - I'm not certain, but I was playing w. it last night, and it seemed like the extractor was stronger than normal.

[RangerTrace]

The Tripp mags were doing that on occasion with my Wilson CQB 38 Super. Virgil advised to clip two coils off the mag spring.

[chad GUNder]

Had to remove two coils from the Wilson mags in my 9mm Trojan. I would suggest taking the mags apart and cleaning them, looking for coil bind or stacking. Put a small bend up just under the follower nose. I've had some mags that that bend helped.

With the slide off, check the clearance between the ejector and the magazine. I've seen several hit, just remove a little off the bottom of the ejector if it hits. You'll need to remove the ejector to do this.

If nothing is bound and the mags are clean, not hitting the ejector, cut one coil from the bottom of the spring and check it.

I wouldn't remove more that two and do it one at a time.

Might check for a burr on the magazine release also.

New mags, load the up and let them sit for a day or so to let the springs set before cutting the springs.

+1 on checking the clearance between the magazine/top round in the magazine and the bottom of the ejector. I'll bet the Tripp mags are built to orientate the rounds to the chamber as high as possible. I've had this same problem in the past and was easily solved with a jewelers file to the bottom of the ejector to ensure no interference.

[walter hornby]

check you OAL. 1.250 should be close for most guns.

[Aglifter]

Well, I'll head off and borrow a calipers to check the OAL - looked OK w. a tape measure, but... (No reloading set up at the ranch.) I think the ejector is clearing the mag, but I'll double check.

When loaded w. 10 rounds, there's almost no "give" in the loaded magazine - its very hard to push down on the top round, and it moves only a v. small amount.

I might try clipping the spring.

If just a few are loaded, and the slide is released in a normal fashion, it will feed an empty casing just fine, does that eliminate the OAL of the round as a problem, or is it irrelevant?

[Aglifter]

The OAL is 1.243. I got a second opinion that the extractor is tearing up the brass more than normal. It seems to feed better from the mags, now that they've sat overnight.

[BritinUSA]

Have you tried shooting SuperComp brass through it. If the extractor seems tight with regular .38 Super then it may have been tuned for the SuperComp brass instead. If the extractor claw is too far inward then the case can't slip under it as the slide moves forward. It seems to me that everything that you have experienced is pointing towards shooting .38 Super out of a gun setup for SuperComp.

[Joe4d]

are you confusing ejector and extractor when you say the extractor is tearing up the brass more than normal I am not quite getting what you are talking about. Is the rim chewed up or do you have a scratch down the length of the brass?

[Aglifter]

Its the rim that's chewed up.

[Aglifter]

Well, clipped 2 coils out, still has some problems, but it does work better. The extractor was filthy - some time in an ultrasonic cleaner got considerably more movement out of it. Ordered all new springs, but couldn't replace the one (mainspring, I think - the one w. 3 tines) as it didn't fit, and it has some kind of unique extractor, so that wasn't replaced.

The tripp mags are a bit "loose" in the gun - I haven't confirmed it yet, but I think they feed OK if I push up on the bottom.

[superdude]

nosedive is a problem for all single stack 1911s. there are ways to improve feeding, but in my experience the magazines are all quite similar unless something is out of spec. as i understand it the Tripp mags do their best to increase the height that the cartridges start from, but there are limits. followers tend not to have any effect on a fully loaded magazine, which is when nosedives are most problematic. extractors are not relevant for nosedive issues. ejectors might be if they prevent the magazine from locking into place. i don't know if they would be a problem if they contact the case rim. here is the best advice i know of for addressing nosedive issues; use hard round nose (FMJ {best option}, or cast, NOT plated or swaged) bullets loaded to a "proper" overall length. flat nose bullets exacerbate the problem. polish the feed ramp well. i admit to not reading all the information in the previous posts, and suggest that rimless Super Comp brass offers a potentially useful benefit over typical semi-rimmed 38 Super cases because it is the rim catching in the extractor groove of the underlying cartridge that contributes to nosedive. nosedive also occurs with truly rimless cases (like 38 Super Lapua), but there will be a slight reduction in drag if you use rimless cases. see: http://www.38super.net/Pages/Brass.html for more information.

for how bullet design can influence feeding reliability see: http://www.38super.net/Pages/Bullet%20Design%20and%20Feeding%20Reliability.html

good luck

[Action Pistolero]

I believe Para calls that their "power" extractor. I can't remember now where I saw it but someone is selling a sleeve that you can put in the extractor tunnel to use a normal extractor. It was probably Brownells.

I assume that the gun has a ramped barrel. Is there a copper stripe going up the ramp? Take a dremel with a polishing wheel and some polishing compound and make that ramp look like a mirror.

You may very well have 2 problems. With all the tension created with a fully loaded mag the slide may not be coming back far enough to get a run on stripping the next round out of the mag. That's why cutting 2 coils off showed some improvement. Now the spring doesn't have quite enough oomph to get the slide closed with a full mag. This is where a variable power recoil spring comes in. If you are using minor pf loads then a 9 or 10 pound spring should do.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Action Pistolero

[Aglifter]

I put an 18.5# variable recoil spring - I thought it was too much, but it seemed like a place to work down from. Would going back to the original recoil spring - guestimating at 14# - help increase the slide speed?

Now, it doesn't always close, even though it feeds the round into the chamber - I have a metalform mag on order, to see if that helps.

The feed ramp is smooth - the frustrating thing is that as filthy as that extractor was, it must have been shot somehow. I still have all the original parts - I'm close to just packing it off to someone.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Aglifter

[Action Pistolero]

The lighter recoil spring will certainly increase slide speed.

Take the slide off and slide a case under the extractor. Then install the barrel and slide it up into the locking lugs. Pull it down out of lock and slide the barrel out of the slide. The round should stay under the extractor. I'm thinking that the extractor is way too tight so it should pass that test easily. It shouldn't take much force to get the round under the extractor. The case should be held firmly but just on the virge of falling out. The other thing to try is to take out the extractor, put the gun back together and try to chamber a round. It should go into battery with no problems.

Let us know.

[Aglifter]

MUAHAHA! Victory! (Of sorts.) Tried it w. a Taurus mag, and it worked fine. Today my Mec-Gar and Metalform (w. a polymer, concave follower) came in, and also worked.

The Tripp mags are cutting the rims of the rounds, not the extractor or ejector - so, IMO, they're defective, as there's no way they could function.

[Aircooled6racer]

[Hello: Give Virgil Tripp a call and see what he suggests. Sounds like a burr on the mag lips. Thanks, Eric